Does this sound right or a scam?

[Mike805]

Quote from austinp:

<i>"they arent black box traders but isnt that what they are trying to sell?"</i>

Any 100% automated system offered to the public is destined to fail. That is an absolute rule, no exceptions.

Whenever you hear - read about a fully automated approach where everyone gets the exact-same signals each time, there is no possible way it can succeed.

Take the ER2 for example. If someone tries to market a mechanical system for that, what will happen? Enough system buyers to absolutely overwhelm the signals is guaranteed.

Try filling 300 ER contracts at 824.40 in group-grope fashion where everyone gets the same signal. Limit orders would fill 10 to 50 contracts at most. Everyone else pounds salt with no fill while watching intended trade run away. Market orders would complete the fill several ticks to couple handles away from 24.40 intended.

Black-box mechanical systems must be protected from disclosure, or they are doomed to fail.

Austin,

With all due respect, you chose a specific example that doesn't apply in general terms. Of course the ER2 will slip under heavy pressure. That's the nature of the instrument - low liquidity at certain prices. Also, I assume you are talking about scalping, or in general, a very short time frame where the price moves provide opportunity for smaller sized lots. All these issues are things to avoid when looking at a tradeable system - they all do not allow for scalability.

I trade a very scalable self developed system that could probably handle 100x the size I currently trade it with and I am looking into providing an advisory service for a very small number of clients. The facts about disclosure scares me (i.e. I do not want to provide any details about how this thing trades), but, I know for a fact it can handle a good amount of added size and the potential for large scale funding also interests me.

My bias as a "wanna be" signal provider most likely makes my post more suspect, but, I do believe people can trade signals given a certain time frame minimum (I'd say 10 minutes or more) on liquid instruments.

Out of curiosity, what are your (or anyone else's) thoughts on collective2.com?

Mike

 

[NYOBScalper]

NO ONE sells an automated system. Giving out signals is stupid. The closet scenario you might find is, say, someone has an autobot to trade the ES that can be scaled up to 400 contracts... but the guy just doesn't have enough of a bankroll to sit through the drawdowns, and so he's trading it with 25 contracts, watching it make money, but seeing all that he's leaving on the table. He might find a rich investor, thorugh his networking, to take on risk and split the gains, because if he can now trade another 300 contracts, and he keeps half the profit, without risk, it's worth it. What he won't do, however, is give YOU this offer. He definitely wont' give it to the general public.

An automated system that is good can make so much fucking money that selling it is just stupid... it's an asset, with an unknown life expectancy and somewhat unpredictable future net cash flow, depending on what edge it trades, but it's still an asset nonetheless...

no one sells valuable assets at pennies on the dollar, and that's what this scam is offering, = bullshit.

"Learn how to get shares of Goldman Sachs, ticker GS, for only $60!"
"Purchase prime manhattan real estate - a beautiful 4 bedroom apartment in perfect condition located on 72nd and Lexington - for $150,000 - flip it for 10x!"
That would be obvious bullshit.
This should be no different.