Does science make belief in God obsolete?

[smilingsynic]

Quote from Epiphany:

Templeton doesn't know his bible

"Do NOT put your Lord God to the test'

God answers prayers IF he wants to, and WHEN he wants to

Thus rendering any scientific experiment to prove the efficacy of prayer to be meaningless

If God is sovereign, all-powerful, and all-knowing (past, present, and future), prayer is meaningless, because a sovereign and omniscient God already has an eternal plan. Prayer would mess that up.

If God is not sovereign, all-powerful, and all-knowing, then prayer is meaningless. Might as well talk to the wall.

Prayer changes things? The only thing it changes is the ego of the self-important person who prays. It increases.

Scientifically speaking, prayer is also meaningless. Those who pray, please name me one amputee who was healed because of prayer, or one certainly dead person who was brought back from the dead.

 

[kjkent1]

Science does not make God obsolete, because there is no intersection between the set of all that is measurable and the set of that which is not.

For those who do not believe, God is obsolete regardless of science. For those who believe, God is never obsolete, regardless of science. For those who don't know, God is irrelevant, regardless of science.

I think that about covers it.

 

[I am...]

Quote from kjkent1:

Science does not make God obsolete, because there is no intersection between the set of all that is measurable and the set of that which is not.

For those who do not believe, God is obsolete regardless of science. For those who believe, God is never obsolete, regardless of science. For those who don't know, God is irrelevant, regardless of science.

I think that about covers it.

Yes that covers it. Some, however, are looking for "miracles of science". One of the Keys of Enoch, for example, mentions how science will restore missing limbs by accessing "spin points". Now, depending on what one sees as the purpose of belief in God, science may render that purpose obsolete. If the purpose, for example, is to manipulate the body and make it's existence a bit more comfortable or extend it's time-span, then science may have something to offer that renders a certain type of god obsolete.

Those who pin their hopes there should be well advised of the eventual disappointment of all worldly paths. So long as guilt remains in the deep recesses of human consciousness, destruction will come to every body eventually, for that is the body's purpose from its very inception. A body destroys the mind that identifies with it. Destroyed, it is unable to maintain the body for long. Mental manipulation of bodily time-span is questionable in a closed system. The mind that makes bodies has aleady mapped out it's plans for same. That mind is insane, so the body's experiences will generally involve pain over time, mitigated by a few "good times" in between.

On the other hand, a body in service of truth would reflect a healthy state of mind...showing attributes of timelessness and invulnerablility. But a mind in service of truth has no interest in maintaining the body any longer than serves the purpose of the greater plan of salvation...to send a message to the world. The body is a limit from which the truth sets the mind free.

Jesus

 

[stu]

Quote from jem:

Sometimes people just do not get it.

and overall the more fortunate for that.

 

[I am...]

Quote from smilingsynic:

If God is sovereign, all-powerful, and all-knowing (past, present, and future), prayer is meaningless, because a sovereign and omniscient God already has an eternal plan. Prayer would mess that up.

God is indeed all-knowing. However, this world is really not knowable. It makes no sense. What makes no sense cannot be understood, cannot be appreciated, cannot be known. It is a state of hypothetically altered awareness. Our Father is unaware of it except that it might have interupted communication between Father and Son. This was solved immediately, such that reality was not interupted at all.

This is a world of perception, a kind of antitheses to knowledge. Perception is always based on limited information, whereas, knowledge is total. Perception is a realm in which the perciever may see anything he wants to see, regardless of the truth. Nothing about this world can ever be truly known, without a doubt. So perception is the land of doubt, where judgement and faith substitute for certainty.

Our Father is only interested in the truth. The "plan" of restoring his Son to the truth about himself is entirely up to the "Holy Spirit", who was created for the purpose of maintaining communication between the Father and the "wayward Son" who invents time as a substitute for eternity. It is the Holy Spirit who does percieve the entirety of time and all it contains. From that perspective He has completely solved the problem of time. He will save anyone time who is willing to guided out of time, back to eternity.

So long as time is your experience, prayer is meaningful. In eternity it has no meaning. While time persists in your experience, the only meaningful prayer is for the restoration of what is yours to your awareness. That is, prayer is for restoring the Son's inheritance to him. The truth is, everything that is real belongs to the Son, and all his problems in time have been solved. Prayer asks that this be established in your awareness, in your experience, until you are restored to knowledge and perception is no more. The prayer asking for awareness of your innocence is the most relevant because the linear experience of time hinges on a belief in guilt, which pervades consciousness.

Jesus

 

[stu]

God becomes obsolete, no longer used, outdated or invalid, wherever the sum of human knowledge amounts to anything more than a superstition.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Epiphany:

Templeton doesn't know his bible

"Do NOT put your Lord God to the test...

...lest ye be disappointed."

Quote from Epiphany:

...God answers prayers IF he wants to, and WHEN he wants to...

Which leads to rather random outcomes, doesn't it? Not unlike praying for dice to fall a certain way, but the darn critters seem to have a mind of their own. It's as if the number will come up IF it wants to and WHEN it wants to. Somewhat like the God you refer to, eh? So, then, are you a gambling man? Praying for that number? Praying for that outcome? (Are those snake eyes again?)

 

[I am...]

Quote from stu:

God becomes obsolete, no longer used, outdated or invalid, wherever the sum of human knowledge amounts to anything more than a superstition.

Gee Stu, are you trying to get published in Bartlett's book of popular quotations? If you had as much faith in man as you have in elves, you'ld be saved already! There isn't much difference between the two except perhaps the shape of the ears, average height, and...elves are better shots with a bow and arrow.

Jesus

 

[Epiphany]

Quote from Epiphany:

...God answers prayers IF he wants to, and WHEN he wants to...

Quote from Thunderdog:

Which leads to rather random outcomes, doesn't it? Not unlike praying for dice to fall a certain way, but the darn critters seem to have a mind of their own. It's as if the number will come up IF it wants to and WHEN it wants to. Somewhat like the God you refer to, eh? So, then, are you a gambling man? Praying for that number? Praying for that outcome? (Are those snake eyes again?)

From your perspective it is 'random.'

God's ways are higher than our ways. He is not random or capricious. He answers some prayers and leaves others unanswered for his own eternal purposes.

Yes I am a betting man (trader) - and I am long God's understanding, and massively short your conception of reality.

I will pryamid into the position.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Epiphany:

...God's ways are higher than our ways. He is not random or capricious. He answers some prayers and leaves others unanswered for his own eternal purposes...

Thank you for your deep, first-hand insight into the mind of God. Next time you two (Two?) are kibitzing, tell Him to have His people call my people.