Does Israel have right to exist in current form?

[WAEL012000]

1. Remarks by Ernest F. Hollings, May 20, 2004. Congressional Record – Senate, May 20, 2004, pages S5921-S5925.
2. The Guardian (London), August 20, 2002.
3. Bob Woodward, Plan of Attack (Simon & Schuster, 2004), p. 186. See also p. 188
4. Bob Woodward, Plan of Attack (Simon & Schuster, 2004), p. 320.
5. R. Dunn, "Sharon Could Have Written Speech," The Times (London), June 26, 2002.
6. Bush address to AIPAC convention, Washington, DC, May 18, 2004.
7. A. S. Lewin, "Israel’s Security is Key to Security of Rest of World," Jewish Press (Brooklyn, NY), May 14, 2003. Rice's interview with the Israeli daily Yediot Aharnonot is quoted.
8. Text posted at http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm See also: J. Bamford, A Pretext for War (Doubleday, 2004), pages 261-269; B. Whitaker, “Playing Skittles with Saddam,” The Guardian (Britain), Sept. 3, 2002.
9. J. Vest, “The Men From JINSA and CSP,” The Nation, Sept. 2, 2002 (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20020902/vest).
10. S. Francis, “Weapons of Mass Deception: Somebody Lied,” column of Feb. 6, 2004 (http://www.vdare.com/francis/wmd.htm).
11. A. Benn, “Background: Enthusiastic IDF Awaits War in Iraq,” Haaretz, Feb. 17, 2002. Quoted in J. J. Mearsheimer, Stephen M. Walt, “The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy,” March 2006, p. 30, and p. 68, fn. 146.
12. Jonathan Steele, “Israel Puts Pressure on US to Strike Iraq,” The Guardian (London), August 17, 2002.
13. Robert Novak, “Sharon’s War?,” column of Dec. 26, 2002. (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn20021226.shtml).
14. L. King, “Ex-General Says Israel Inflated Iraqi Threat,” Los Angeles Times, Dec. 5, 2003.; See also: J. J. Mearsheimer, Stephen M. Walt, “The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy,” March 2006, p. 29, and p. 67, fn. 142.
15. John J. Mearsheimer, Stephen M. Walt, “The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy,” March 2006, pages 29, 30, 32.(http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/Research/wpaper.nsf/rwp/RWP06-011/$File/rwp_06_011_walt.pdf). A shorter version appeared in the London Review of Books, March 23, 2006. (http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html).
16. P. J. Buchanan, “Whose War?,” The American Conservative, March 24, 2003. (http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html).
17. Uri Avnery, "The Night After,” CounterPunch, April 10, 2003 (http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery04102003.html).
18. F. Nelson, “Anger Over Dalyell’s ‘Jewish Cabal’ Slur,” The Scotsman (Edinburgh), May 5, 2003; M. White, “Dalyell Steps Up Attack On Levy,” The Guardian (London), May 6, 2003.

 

[dddooo]

Quote from WAEL012000:

The israelis warned them??? Hahahahahahahahahah!

Chief of staff of former secretary of state reveals that large number of senior Israeli officials warned Bush administration that invasion of Iraq would be destabilizing to region. 'The Israelis were telling us Iraq is not the enemy - Iran is the enemy,' he says

The man, Lawrence Wilkerson, was a member of the US State Department's policy planning staff and later chief of staff for Secretary of State Colin Powell.

In an interview with the news agency, he said that "the Israelis were telling us Iraq is not the enemy - Iran is the enemy."


According to Wilkerson, different sources in Israel explained to senior US officials that "if you are going to destabilize the balance of power, do it against the main enemy."

Wilkerson noted that the main point of their communications was not that the US should immediately attack Iran, but that "it should not be distracted by Iraq and Saddam Hussein" from a focus on the threat from Iran.

The message was conveyed by a large number of senior Israeli officials to their American counterparts, including political figures and intelligence sources.

According to Wilkerson, the Israeli advice was apparently triggered by reports reaching Israeli officials in December 2001 that the Bush administration was beginning serious planning for an attack on Iraq.

Soon after Israeli officials got wind of that planning, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon asked for a meeting with Bush primarily to discuss US intentions to invade Iraq.

In the weeks preceding Sharon's meeting with Bush on February 7, 2002, a procession of Israeli officials conveyed the message to the US administration that Iran represented a greater threat, according to a Washington Post report on the eve of the meeting.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3444393,00.html

PS Wilkerson has never been a friend of Israel, in fact he's always been very critical of Israel.

 

[WAEL012000]

Quote from dddooo:

My views are based on the fact that modern civilization has been created by judeo-cristian societies and the muslim world has contributed absolutely nothing in the process (besides terrorism, despotism and camel fucking of course). I can give you a huge list of Israel's achievements in science, technology, medicine, arts, business, defense etc during the short 60 years of its existence, you will not be able to come up with two positive things the entire muslim world has contributed during the last 1000 years.

All people are created equal. Too bad they don't grow up equal. People in some societies grow up to be scientists, artists, entrepreneurs, engineers, doctors... People in some other societies grow up to be jihadists, hate preaching mullahs, terrorists, suicide bombers, religious extremists... All societies have bad apples. Some try their best to root them out, others name streets and squares after them.

Of course you were going to sing using that tone! After all, it is evangelical America which will back the interest of your state over the interest of their own to fulfill their prophecy. Of curse you are going to milk this relationship to its last drop.

As for the Arab contribution, you will need another elite trader to accommodate all of the contribution made by Arabs and Muslim throughout history. But I am not here to discuss that. I am here to discuss your zionist state which cause so much suffering, death and destruction not only to us but to the rest of the world.

From blood money of Africa to covert operations in Latin America to the illegal sale of American technology to its enemies to having thousands of American kids die just so that your zionist kids could be tucked at home safe.

 

[dddooo]

Frankly I can hardly blame people like Wael and Alien for arriving at their conclusions. I mean, the US and Israel are allies, Israel is in the middle east therefore any military (and non-military) action by the US in the Middle East must be for Israel's sake. To stupid people this logic appears to be impeccable and unfortunately a lot of people are stupid.

Of course they ignore all the evidence to the contrary, they ignore the fact that the US could and did have a bunch of other reasons to invade Iraq, that several arab states hostile to Israel (SA, Kuwait, Qatar...) willingly assisted in the invasion, that in fact Saddam Hussein was the least of Israel's worries. They ignore these facts for the same reason - they are stupid. Can anyone blame stupid people for being stupid?

 

[dddooo]

Israel, the 100th smallest country, with less than 1/1000th of the world's population, can lay claim to the following:

Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.

Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation by a large margin - 109 per 10,000 people - as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.

In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the largest number of startup companies than any other country in the world,
except the US (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).

Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right behind the US.

Outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies.

Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East. The per capita income in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.

With an aerial arsenal of over 250 F-16s, Israel has the largest fleet of the aircraft outside of the US.

Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined.

On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech start-ups.

Twenty-four percent of Israel's workforce holds university degrees - ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States and
Holland - and 12 percent hold advanced degrees.

Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.

In 1984 and 1991, Israel airlifted a total of 22,000 Ethiopian Jews at risk in Ethiopia to safety in Israel.

When Golda Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she became the world's second elected female leader in modern times.

When the U. S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya was bombed in 1998, Israeli rescue teams were on the scene within a day - and saved three victims from the rubble.

Israel has the third highest rate of entrepreneurship - and the highest rate among women and among people over 55 - in the world.

Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation on earth. Immigrants come in search of democracy, religious freedom, and economic opportunity.

Israel was the first nation in the world to adopt the Kimberly process, an international standard that certifies diamonds as "conflict free."

According to industry officials, Israel designed the airline industry's most impenetrable flight security. U. S. officials now look to Israel for advice on how to handle airborne security threats.

In 1991, during the Gulf War, the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra played a concert wearing gas masks as scud missiles fired by Saddam Hussein fell on Tel Aviv.

Israel has the world's second highest per capita of new books.

Israel is the only country in the world that entered the 21st century with a net gain in its number of trees, made more remarkable because this was achieved in an area considered mainly desert.

Israel has more museums per capita than any other country.

Medicine... Israeli scientists developed the first fully
computerized,no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.

An Israeli company developed a computerized system for ensuring proper

administration of medications, thus removing human error from medical treatment. Every year in U. S. hospitals 7,000 patients die from treatment mistakes.

Israel's Givun imaging developed the first ingestible video camera, so small it fits inside a pill. Used to view the small intestine from the inside, the camera helps doctors diagnose cancer and digestive disorders.

Researchers in Israel developed a new device that directly helps the heart pump blood, an innovation with the potential to save lives among those with heart failure. The new device is synchronized with the
heart's mechanical operations through a sophisticated system of sensors.


Technology... With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and start-ups, Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world
(apart from the Silicon Valley).

In response to serious water shortages, Israeli engineers and agriculturalists developed a revolutionary drip irrigation system to minimize the amount of water used to grow crops.

Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per capita.

Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U. S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its work
force employed in technical professions. Israel places first in this category as well.

The cell phone was developed in Israel by Motorola, which has its largest development center in Israel.

Most of the Windows NT operating system was developed by Microsoft-Israel.

The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel.

Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.

Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.

The AOL Instant Messenger was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis.

A new acne treatment developed in Israel, the ClearLight
device,produces a high-intensity, ultraviolet-light-free, narrow-band
blue light that causes acne bacteria to self-destruct - all without
damaging surroundings skin or tissue.

An Israeli company was the first to develop and install a large-scale
solar-powered and fully functional electricity generating plant, in
southern California's Mojave desert."

All the above while engaged in regular wars with an implacable enemy that seeks its destruction, and an economy continuously under strain by having to spend more per capita on its own protection than any other country on earth. This from a country just 55 years young having started off life on a very frontiers-like basis, whose population had mostly just emerged from the devastating World War II years.

 

[WAEL012000]

Quote from dddooo:

Frankly I can hardly blame people like Wael and Alien for arriving at their conclusions. I mean, the US and Israel are allies, Israel is in the middle east therefore any military (and non-military) action by the US in the Middle East must be for Israel's sake. To stupid people this logic appears to be impeccable and unfortunately a lot of people are stupid.

Of course they ignore all the evidence to the contrary, they ignore the fact that the US could and did have a bunch of other reasons to invade Iraq, that several arab states hostile to Israel (SA, Kuwait, Qatar...) willingly assisted in the invasion, that in fact Saddam Hussein was the least of Israel's worries. They ignore these facts for the same reason - they are stupid. Can anyone blame stupid people for being stupid?

Oh no you di'ent!!

Your ex prime minister Netenyaho promoted the war. Zionist orginizations in America, such as JINSA and CSP promoed the war through heir influential administrative insiders. Also, all of the Neo conservatives, who promoted and fought arm and teeth for this war to take place, Are hard core zionists. Some of them even worked at orginizing election campaigns in israel.

In addition, your claim tha israel warned against the war is entierly false!!

Read below.

"Any postponement of an attack on Iraq at this stage will serve no purpose," Ranaan Gissin, a senior Sharon adviser told the Associated Press yesterday. "It will only give Saddam Hussein more of an opportunity to accelerate his program of weapons of mass destruction.

Israeli intelligence officials had new evidence that Iraq was speeding up efforts to produce biological and chemical weapons, he added."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0817-01.htm

Three months before the US invasion, the well-informed Washington journalist Robert Novak reported that Israeli prime minister Sharon was telling American political leaders that “the greatest US assistance to Israel would be to overthrow Saddam Hussein’s Iraqi regime.” Moreover, added Novak, “that view is widely shared inside the Bush administration, and is a major reason why US forces today are assembling for war.”

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/26/column.novak.opinion.sharon/

 

[dddooo]

Quote from WAEL012000:

Oh no you di'ent!!

Your ex prime minister Netenyaho promoted the war. Zionist orginizations in America, such as JINSA and CSP promoed the war through heir influential administrative insiders. Also, all of the Neo conservatives, who promoted and fought arm and teeth for this war to take place, Are hard core zionists. Some of them even worked at orginizing election campaigns in israel.

In addition, your claim tha israel warned against the war is entierly false!!

Read below.

"Any postponement of an attack on Iraq at this stage will serve no purpose," Ranaan Gissin, a senior Sharon adviser told the Associated Press yesterday. "It will only give Saddam Hussein more of an opportunity to accelerate his program of weapons of mass destruction.

Israeli intelligence officials had new evidence that Iraq was speeding up efforts to produce biological and chemical weapons, he added."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0817-01.htm

Three months before the US invasion, the well-informed Washington journalist Robert Novak reported that Israeli prime minister Sharon was telling American political leaders that “the greatest US assistance to Israel would be to overthrow Saddam Hussein’s Iraqi regime.” Moreover, added Novak, “that view is widely shared inside the Bush administration, and is a major reason why US forces today are assembling for war.”

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/26/column.novak.opinion.sharon/

Oh, Novak said that so it must be true. LOL, Wael, get real. And your common dream article starting with "Israel signaled its decision yesterday to put public pressure on President George Bush to go ahead with a military attack on Iraq" is also extremely credible given that there was absolutely no "public pressure" on George Bush from Israel or any other country/entity. In fact it was Bush who was pressuring everyone. Check your sources wael and reread the Wilkinson's testimony. He (unlike commondreams and novak) was actually involved in the war in Iraq and he is not pro-Israel:


Chief of staff of former secretary of state reveals that large number of senior Israeli officials warned Bush administration that invasion of Iraq would be destabilizing to region. 'The Israelis were telling us Iraq is not the enemy - Iran is the enemy,' he says

The man, Lawrence Wilkerson, was a member of the US State Department's policy planning staff and later chief of staff for Secretary of State Colin Powell.

In an interview with the news agency, he said that "the Israelis were telling us Iraq is not the enemy - Iran is the enemy."


According to Wilkerson, different sources in Israel explained to senior US officials that "if you are going to destabilize the balance of power, do it against the main enemy."

Wilkerson noted that the main point of their communications was not that the US should immediately attack Iran, but that "it should not be distracted by Iraq and Saddam Hussein" from a focus on the threat from Iran.

The message was conveyed by a large number of senior Israeli officials to their American counterparts, including political figures and intelligence sources.

According to Wilkerson, the Israeli advice was apparently triggered by reports reaching Israeli officials in December 2001 that the Bush administration was beginning serious planning for an attack on Iraq.

Soon after Israeli officials got wind of that planning, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon asked for a meeting with Bush primarily to discuss US intentions to invade Iraq.

In the weeks preceding Sharon's meeting with Bush on February 7, 2002, a procession of Israeli officials conveyed the message to the US administration that Iran represented a greater threat, according to a Washington Post report on the eve of the meeting.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3444393,00.html

 

[WAEL012000]

Quote from dddooo:

Oh, Novak said that so it must be true. LOL, Wael, get real. And your common dream article starting with "Israel signaled its decision yesterday to put public pressure on President George Bush to go ahead with a military attack on Iraq" is also extremely credible given that there was absolutely no "public pressure" on George Bush from Israel or any other country/entity. In fact it was Bush who was pressuring everyone. Check your sources wael and reread the Wilkinson's testimony. He (unlike commondreams and novak) was actually involved in the war in Iraq and he is not pro-Israel:


Chief of staff of former secretary of state reveals that large number of senior Israeli officials warned Bush administration that invasion of Iraq would be destabilizing to region. 'The Israelis were telling us Iraq is not the enemy - Iran is the enemy,' he says

The man, Lawrence Wilkerson, was a member of the US State Department's policy planning staff and later chief of staff for Secretary of State Colin Powell.

In an interview with the news agency, he said that "the Israelis were telling us Iraq is not the enemy - Iran is the enemy."


According to Wilkerson, different sources in Israel explained to senior US officials that "if you are going to destabilize the balance of power, do it against the main enemy."

Wilkerson noted that the main point of their communications was not that the US should immediately attack Iran, but that "it should not be distracted by Iraq and Saddam Hussein" from a focus on the threat from Iran.

The message was conveyed by a large number of senior Israeli officials to their American counterparts, including political figures and intelligence sources.

According to Wilkerson, the Israeli advice was apparently triggered by reports reaching Israeli officials in December 2001 that the Bush administration was beginning serious planning for an attack on Iraq.

Soon after Israeli officials got wind of that planning, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon asked for a meeting with Bush primarily to discuss US intentions to invade Iraq.

In the weeks preceding Sharon's meeting with Bush on February 7, 2002, a procession of Israeli officials conveyed the message to the US administration that Iran represented a greater threat, according to a Washington Post report on the eve of the meeting.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3444393,00.html

WHAT??? Man are you fucking OK???

I tell you that your Prime minister promoted and pushed the war and you tell me that the chief of staff of the "secretary of state" disagrees!

I tell you that """""""Sharon's """"""" spokesman said;

"Any postponement of an attack on Iraq at this stage will serve no purpose," Ranaan Gissin, a senior Sharon adviser told the Associated Press yesterday. "It will only give Saddam Hussein more of an opportunity to accelerate his program of weapons of mass destruction.

Israeli intelligence officials had new evidence that Iraq was speeding up efforts to produce biological and chemical weapons, he added."


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IH30Ak04.html

And you tell me that the chief of staff of the "secretary of state" disagrees!

Anyway...This is an eye opener about the danger you fifth colmuners pose to world peace.


http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/iraqwar.shtml

 

[dddooo]

Quote from WAEL012000:

WHAT??? Man are you fucking OK???

I tell you that your Prime minister promoted and pushed the war and you tell me that the chief of staff of the "secretary of state" disagrees!

I tell you that """""""Sharon's """"""" spokesman said;

"Any postponement of an attack on Iraq at this stage will serve no purpose," Ranaan Gissin, a senior Sharon adviser told the Associated Press yesterday. "It will only give Saddam Hussein more of an opportunity to accelerate his program of weapons of mass destruction.

Israeli intelligence officials had new evidence that Iraq was speeding up efforts to produce biological and chemical weapons, he added."


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IH30Ak04.html

And you tell me that the chief of staff of the "secretary of state" disagrees!

Anyway...This is an eye opener about the danger you fifth colmuners pose to world peace.


http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/iraqwar.shtml

Don't get hysterical loser, a former prime-minister of Israel (Netaniahu) said or wrote something in 1996 and that is your proof that Israel pushed the US into war? An aid to Sharon said that waiting "will serve no purpose" (which was exactly what all other pro-war politicians were saying at the time in the US, UK, Spain, Poland and dozens of other countries) and that's enough for you to claim that american boys are dying in Iraq for Israel . This is too stupid even for an idiot like you wael, your own article contradicts your nonsense calling the aide's remark "a notable exception:'

Alpher noted that Washington did not want public support by Israel and in fact requested that Israel refrain from openly supporting the invasion in order to avoid an automatic negative reaction from Iraq's Arab neighbors.

After that meeting, the Sharon government generally remained silent on the issue of an invasion of Iraq. A notable exception, however, was a statement on August 16, 2002, by Ranaan Gissin, an aide to Sharon. Ranaan declared, "Any postponement of an attack on Iraq at this stage will serve no purpose. It will only give [Saddam] more of an opportunity to accelerate his program of weapons of mass destruction."
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IH30Ak04.html

Here is his quote in proper context - Iraq: hawks and doves among dozens of pro and anti-war quotes from politicians representing all continents. It was part of the pre-war debate, nothing more, nothing less.


Wael, we both know the truth, Iraq's arab neighbors, not Israel were terrified of Saddam, Israel does not even have a common border with Iraq, Israel was not concerned with Iraq, it was and still is concerned with Syria, Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas. The invasion was launched from Kuwait, Saudi Arabia supported it, the US command center was in Qatar, the oil industry and the gulf states benefited from the invasion.

 

[WAEL012000]

Quote from dddooo:

Don't get hysterical loser, a former prime-minister of Israel (Netaniahu) said or wrote something in 1996 and that is your proof that Israel pushed the US into war? An aid to Sharon said that waiting "will serve no purpose" (which was exactly what all other pro-war politicians were saying at the time in the US, UK, Spain, Poland and dozens of other countries) and that's enough for you to claim that american boys are dying in Iraq for Israel . This is too stupid even for an idiot like you wael, your own article contradicts your nonsense calling the aide's remark "a notable exception:'

Alpher noted that Washington did not want public support by Israel and in fact requested that Israel refrain from openly supporting the invasion in order to avoid an automatic negative reaction from Iraq's Arab neighbors.

After that meeting, the Sharon government generally remained silent on the issue of an invasion of Iraq. A notable exception, however, was a statement on August 16, 2002, by Ranaan Gissin, an aide to Sharon. Ranaan declared, "Any postponement of an attack on Iraq at this stage will serve no purpose. It will only give [Saddam] more of an opportunity to accelerate his program of weapons of mass destruction."
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IH30Ak04.html

Here is his quote in proper context - Iraq: hawks and doves among dozens of pro and anti-war quotes from politicians representing all continents. It was part of the pre-war debate, nothing more, nothing less.


Wael, we both know the truth, Iraq's arab neighbors, not Israel were terrified of Saddam, Israel does not even have a common border with Iraq, Israel was not concerned with Iraq, it was and still is concerned with Syria, Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas. The invasion was launched from Kuwait, Saudi Arabia supported it, the US command center was in Qatar, the oil industry and the gulf states benefited from the invasion.

No! That is not enough for you you little bitch. But the chief of staff of the secretery of the secretery of a f state is an enough conformation that you zionist fucks did not cook the war.

Hey bitch...Why don't you kiss my ass zinoboy.