Does IBKR do proprietary trading with own money?

[tradeking007yahoo]

I have traded a lot probably more than most but that doesnt mean i know everything however can you show me an example made up how this trading against 'YOU" would adversely impact what you are doing in the market? i.e. just use a 1 lot in the eminis as an example
or a 100 share trade in say tesla. how does this impact you badly?

 

[tradeking007yahoo]

if i know they are going to trade against me then this is what i would do.
if i want to buy 3 emini then i would buy 1 and when they trade against me.. i would know i can get 1 tick or 2 ticks better price on the next 2 right? i mean they cannot just trade against you alone because you arent doing a huge % of volume (assumption) and there are other participatns using IKBR and dark pools etc.

SO again please explain to me how them trading against you had hurt your performance if so how do you know the amount and if this happened a lot causing massive losses then no one would use IKBR the word would get out!

no one seems to care that the hft firms are getting order information in exchagne for free trading!

I am not countering what you are saying as wrong or anything i just want to see a fake real world example of how this ultimately effects the end result of your actual trade? If you are a synthetic market maker then perhaps you shouldnt be in that realm if you arent sure what is going and need to go to a public board for answers?

MY POINT AGAIN AS IT ALWAYS WILL BE... How is this idea of tradin against you hurt you or your trade all you have to do is game them! trade small trade small as they sell against you then nail em with a big order.. i mean come one this might happen for pennies in stocks but if that is your goal then you will be slowly methodically worked over until you stop trying to play a game not meant for anyone who is not an HFT.

 

[tradeking007yahoo]

Recently, I read about the story of MF Global and it sends shivers up my spine. Jon Corzine caused MF Global to go bankrupt through proprietary trading and even took client money down with it. If it can happen to a big broker like MF Global, why can't it happen to other brokers? Even one as big as IBKR?

I am a satisfied customer of IBKR. I would like to stay on with IBKR. If there are IBKR staff here, may I ask you if IBKR do proprietary trading like MF Global? I'm scared that a black swan event hits and I may suffer the same fate as MF Global clients. I don't think I'm the only IBKR client who is worried about this.

they survvied negative oil i think you are ok and they paid out 118 million due to a software gltich on that day so i think you will be a ok.

MF global bought out refco and that was the beginning of the end!
a lot has changed from risk control electronically with futures trading and leverage.

refco acutally had ZERO margin for any series 3 broker. you got that zero! why?
because it takes time to process every step of the trade.
to convert a stop to a mkt order takes time! checking risk everytime takes time you add up all of these miniscule time checks and guess what you have missed the trade!! so
refco attracted a ton of people and biz becuase we serioulsy got the best most incredible fill you could imagine! until one day a guy by the name of EVAN DOOLEY ruined it for us all losing 135 million overnight in the biggest spoofing scheme i have ever seen to date.

There is still risk but things are better now not without risk or sure but they are better. much much better.

btw did you know that when globex first came out they actually showed you the counter party of your trades! not kidding. they would show jpmorgam or goldman etc. the idea was well on the floor you can see who it was so why not electronically.. this still happens but for the most part what people at home dont ever remember is that HFT knows you are filled before you do! do you understand this aspect. they fill your order. they are dma at the exchange. they are setting you up with new orders before yours has even hit your screen at home or your programmed algo on a server in chicago they know you are filled because they filled you

 

[tradeking007yahoo]

the bottom line is you are either correct in the direction of the trade or you are wrong! it doesnt matter what happens in between unless you are overleveraged or just wrong quickly or proven right slowly. what does any of this actually do to your account.

as an experiment trade demo and watch what happens ? are they still trading against you? how? they dont know you are even in the mkt.. oh let me guess they make live trades off of your demo trades? i say let them have their penny. good for them.

 

[tradeking007yahoo]

doley put on 15,000 wheat contracts! with a 2,000 dollar account!

nothing is ever as it seems! they knew what he was up too! someone took the counter trade secretly only after knowing who and what was going on and probably also shorted mf global stock! ha ha nothing just happens

 

[aquarian1]

if i know they are going to trade against me then this is what i would do.
if i want to buy 3 emini then i would buy 1 and when they trade against me.. i would know i can get 1 tick or 2 ticks better price on the next 2 right?
no not right

SO again please explain to me

• how them trading against you had hurt your performance
• if so how do you know the amount
• and if this happened a lot causing massive losses then no one would use IKBR the word would get out!

I don't want to get into a lot of back and forth here on elite.

Once you look up internalization you will understand
In ES there is a spread of 0.25
They can take the spread off both sides.

In any case, it isn't worth talking about or arguing - you will never prove it to a level that the Futures commodities commission would take action. The brokers are their clients. They will never ask for or receive their computer code which is what is needed.

Do you know what the result of MF Global theft?

The Sec concluded there was "loose accounting standards" both took no action against them and no criminal action.

The whole discussion, here on this board, is a waste of time.

 

[def]

Hi mark

I believe they do trade against their own customers with their computers programmed to delay/match buy and sell orders and take the spread off both sides (in ES and MES). "Internalization". IB help desk denies this - but I know from IB that they:
1. do not use the datafeed they provide to customers when customers complain on fills
2. take it on themselves to delete your message log with them -so you can't get old messages to show what they said.
I have found they harass customers who object.

Bunch of people wearing tin foil hats here.

1. I have said it here repetitively for years and then when we sold the US operation of Timber Hill I thought it would go away but my word is just something on a message board at the end of the day. The idea that IB has been internalizing futures flow is 100% incorrect and ridiculous. The firm has been very clear on earnings calls, regulatory filings and other public means which do carry regulatory punch. The short of it is what you are saying in regards to internalization is ridiculous and false. Don't believe me here - Go read the FINRA filings and listen to earnings calls and heck, learn how to read an income statement and point me to what would be substantial earnings in this regard considering the volumes pumping through our systems. FACT: you place an order for ES and MES and they will immediately be sent to the exchange for execution w/o delay

2. Delete your message log: Tin foil hat statement again. The regulatory repercussions yet alone the technical difficulty given the number of messages passing through the system each day are enormous. FACT: brokers are required to record communications. If you are using the ticket and message system your info will be retained.

As for MF - they did not run their prop out of separate entities. Our market making has always been ring-fenced.

From our website which is about as clear as you can state it:

We manage our brokerage and market making businesses in separate companies, which are registered with local securities and/or commodities regulators. We maintain strict systematic and procedural separation between the two business lines and we do not commingle or utilize client-segregated assets for proprietary operations. Although certain affiliates of IBKR trade for their own account, our client-facing businesses do not conduct proprietary trading. We have completed the winding down of the bulk of our market making operations.

oh and before you jump on "market making". We do not make markets any longer in the US, only Asia where, like always. we do not get a look at client flow in any shape or form.

Those of you who continue to claim otherwise will not change the facts - which actually do matter.

 

[ShadowHunter]

I believe there are many elitetraders here who put far more than 10% of net worth with IBKR because they really aren't many alternative brokers out there who can match IBKR's offerings. Hence, financial safety is so important and concerning to IBKR clients.

and your point is? of course people take risks.

 

[jys78]

they survvied negative oil i think you are ok and they paid out 118 million due to a software gltich on that day so i think you will be a ok.

MF global bought out refco and that was the beginning of the end!
a lot has changed from risk control electronically with futures trading and leverage.

refco acutally had ZERO margin for any series 3 broker. you got that zero! why?
because it takes time to process every step of the trade.
to convert a stop to a mkt order takes time! checking risk everytime takes time you add up all of these miniscule time checks and guess what you have missed the trade!! so
refco attracted a ton of people and biz becuase we serioulsy got the best most incredible fill you could imagine! until one day a guy by the name of EVAN DOOLEY ruined it for us all losing 135 million overnight in the biggest spoofing scheme i have ever seen to date.

There is still risk but things are better now not without risk or sure but they are better. much much better.

btw did you know that when globex first came out they actually showed you the counter party of your trades! not kidding. they would show jpmorgam or goldman etc. the idea was well on the floor you can see who it was so why not electronically.. this still happens but for the most part what people at home dont ever remember is that HFT knows you are filled before you do! do you understand this aspect. they fill your order. they are dma at the exchange. they are setting you up with new orders before yours has even hit your screen at home or your programmed algo on a server in chicago they know you are filled because they filled you

“Rumor” has it Niederhoffer’s trades in refco are what ultimately brought the whole thing down LOL

 

[Launcepeter]

I think IB does proprietary trading, as stated here https://www1.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=46386
Being a trader it’s not possible to save oneself from risk completely, at some level or other it’s always prevalent. My knowledge might be limited but I suppose ECN accounts are better for keeping funds of client separate. Only because of this reason I am using Fxview and XM’s ecn accounts. Then again I am a small scale investor, so my fears might be relatively less of losing all my money completely. I am also quick in withdrawing my profits, fxview is fine that way, with my money reaching me in 2 days.
I guess it’s best to call IB’s customer care to find more sure shot answers regarding your capital.