Does IB hunt stops?

[def]

Quote from Shreddog:

Hey Def,

If I enter a non-marketable hidden order, does it still get flashed to TimberHill and/or other market venues?

I'm not one to buy into the conspiracies, but this is becoming uncanny how my hidden orders get pennied despite being submitted when they are half a percent or more out of the money.

How many ways can I say it. Maybe this is clear for the non-marketable hidden orders you mention above and for all stock orders.....

Your orders do not get flashed to Timber Hill.

Timber Hill does not see your order.

Clear enough.

 

[Shreddog]

Quote from def:

How many ways can I say it. Maybe this is clear for the non-marketable hidden orders you mention above and for all stock orders.....

Your orders do not get flashed to Timber Hill.

Timber Hill does not see your order.

Clear enough.

Clear enough. But that's only half my question. What about other market venues? Do non-marketable hidden orders get flashed to dark books and other routes? I would hope not, but that's only a question IB can answer.

 

[stock777]

Quote from WinstonTJ:

IB has an internal trading division that is Timber Hill. They internalize your orders and yes they can see every posted order you send.

Either you have some very valuable information or you have once again proven your profound imbecilia.


Posted order? Everyone can see a posted order, even you.

If you are saying that a TWS/Server based stop is being flashed and then stop run by TH , then you must have proof, or you are engaging in slander. Which is it tj?

PS Isn't it odd, that tj loves to defend everything hft and yet never misses an opp to bash IB. Yes, odd, very.

 

[stock777]

Quote from Shreddog:

Hey Def,

If I enter a non-marketable hidden order, does it still get flashed to TimberHill and/or other market venues?

I'm not one to buy into the conspiracies, but this is becoming uncanny how my hidden orders get pennied despite being submitted when they are half a percent or more out of the money.

you enter a bid for 9.95 on a 10.00 stock and you think its strange that you either get hit and the stock kicks back up , or they buy in front of you.

easy cure, take offers, hit bids. with penny spreads there's little reason not to. I prefer to buy the bid, but that's because I'm old school.

 

[1prometheus]

The entire universe of successful short term traders are in one way or another hunting stops. Why bother blaming IB?

 

[def]

I had a conversation with one of my colleagues in the US last night and as long as this thread reared its ugly head again, I'll post to make a correction on one of my original statements.

I stated that TH will make dark pool market to be part of the stock NBBO that clients can trade against. That is no longer the case. TH orders are no longer part of the NBBO.

So for all this talk of hunting stops, internalizing flow for stocks, etc etc, I'll repeat and I'm sure I'll have to repeat it again:

- IB doesn't hunt stops
- TH doesn't see client orders
- IB doesn't internalize flow to TH

The aim is simple - get clients the best fills.

 

[Shreddog]

Quote from stock777:

you enter a bid for 9.95 on a 10.00 stock and you think its strange that you either get hit and the stock kicks back up , or they buy in front of you.

easy cure, take offers, hit bids. with penny spreads there's little reason not to. I prefer to buy the bid, but that's because I'm old school.

How about you read my post thoroughly and not try to tell me how to trade. I'm talking about a HIDDEN order placed a good distance from the bid/ask. If I wanted to hit a bid or ask I would.

Does my non-marketable hidden order get sent anywhere before its ultimate destination? Since it is non-marketable it shouldn't. Crappy order routing logic might make it happen anyway.

 

[Occam]

Quote from def:

I had a conversation with one of my colleagues in the US last night and as long as this thread reared its ugly head again, I'll post to make a correction on one of my original statements.

...

- IB doesn't hunt stops
- TH doesn't see client orders
- IB doesn't internalize flow to TH

The aim is simple - get clients the best fills.

Timber Hill provides an automatic execution service for certain eligible IB customer orders in certain Nasdaq stocks and NYSE and other exchange listed stocks. When IB's Best Execution order routing system searches the available market centers for your order, if Timber Hill is willing to provide an execution at the best available national price or better for that stock, IB may send your order to Timber Hill for an immediate automatic execution.

So how exactly does Timber Hill show this "willingness" without either internalizing or setting the NBBO? This looks an awful lot like "internalizing flow to TH" to me, no matter how you spin it.

If IB's goal was to get clients the best fills, they'd send it to an exchange posting the best price rather than giving TH first pass.

Not to mention:

Thus, if the New York Stock Exchange is posting the highest bid or lowest offer in the market but the bid or offer is for only 100 shares, this bid or offer is not considered to be the best available national price and Timber Hill is not required to execute an order in that stock at that price or better.

 

[def]

Quote from Occam:

So how exactly does Timber Hill show this "willingness" without either internalizing or setting the NBBO? This looks an awful lot like "internalizing flow to TH" to me, no matter how you spin it.

If IB's goal was to get clients the best fills, they'd send it to an exchange posting the best price rather than giving TH first pass.

Not to mention:

TH does not provide that "willingness" anymore and even when TH did provide this "willingness", they did not get first pass. They only were an additional destination that was routed to if they could provide the best price.

 

[qichxi]

I have the same experience like you.

I have 100% that they hunt the stop. Because they are not silly, neither do I.