Does God Suffer From Vanity?

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Thunderdog:

Yes, sometimes. I also envy the look of innocent wonderment in a child's eyes when he or she talks about Santa Claus. And while I wish it were all true, I know that it is not. While such excursions into fantasy are a nice diversion, I think life is best lived in the real world. At least for me. While there is no denying that faith may help people cope during difficult times, I think that the people who are too preoccupied with religion's promise of eternal life end up discounting the value of the present perhaps more so than those who know that the only lives they have are the ones they are now living.

as a former believer i so wish it were all true. wouldn't it be wonderful if there were this old grey haired deity in the sky that in your time of great need you could pray to and he would intervene on your behalf. if only you knew that if you had a spouse or child come down with a deadly disease you could pray to this deity and he would protect you.

as much as we all wish it were true it is not. it is all a product of primitive mans imagination.

 

[stu]

Isn't it the case that as no one is a theist when they are born, in reality everyone is actually atheist up until they decide or are convinced by others not to be?
Doesn’t atheism appear as the more natural occurring circumstance, whereas theism is intervention, altering what hitherto was the normal innate human a-theist condition.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from stu:

Isn't it the case that as no one is a theist when they are born, in reality everyone is actually atheist up until they decide or are convinced by others not to be?
Doesn’t atheism appear as the more natural occurring circumstance, whereas theism is intervention, altering what hitherto was the normal innate human a-theist condition.

that is probably true but the human mind seems to be hardwired toward believing in some kind of superstition in all cultures.

 

[neophyte321]

what a collection of embittered, lost souls ...

"I'm so smart, I don't believe in god. Those who do are stupid.
But I kind of wished I did, because that might pop my inflated opinion of myself. "



"the masses......"

go to f*ing church sometime, you might be suprised at how little focus is placed on the "superstition" of the white-bearded man in sky at many of them.

Jesus Christ was a real dude ......

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

When first born, no one is able to speak, understand language, feed themselves, fend for themselves, walk, reason, form a belief system, yada, yada, yada...

Does: not speaking, not being able to care for oneself, not being able to walk, having no ability to think or reason, have no ability to form faith in anything, remaining 100% dependent on others for their very survival, shit their pants constantly, suckle their mamma's breast etc....seem like the natural circumstance to maintain beyond infancy?

Or are these conditions something that people naturally grow out of as they develop and mature...

Your argument is obviously more self justification rubbish for practicing the faith of atheism...or maybe you do shit your pants constantly and suckle your mammas breast because it is "natural" to you to remain in an infant state...I wouldn't be surprised if you actually did exactly that...

Quote from stu:

Isn't it the case that as no one is a theist when they are born, in reality everyone is actually atheist up until they decide or are convinced by others not to be?
doesn't’t atheism appear as the more natural occurring circumstance, whereas theism is intervention, altering what hitherto was the normal innate human a-theist condition.

 

[ddunbar]

Quote from stu:

Isn't it the case that as no one is a theist when they are born, in reality everyone is actually atheist up until they decide or are convinced by others not to be?
Doesn’t atheism appear as the more natural occurring circumstance, whereas theism is intervention, altering what hitherto was the normal innate human a-theist condition.

No, everyone is simply born ignorant, not atheist. And as V said, humans are hardwired to believe in fanciful things. That's self-evident. There is no naturally occuring atheist culture. Never existed.

Atheism is not simply a "disbelief" in gods. It's a conclusion draw from active reasoning.

And if there was no theism, there'd be no atheism as atheism is the antithesis to theism.

 

[stu]

ddunbar,
I was not trying to hold the argument on a point of over simplistic emphasis, I am more trying to fill out the meaning. Whether one is in circumstance which leaves them ignorant of politics or rejecting interest in them from active reasoning , one would still be in fact a-political. Then the same would surely apply to a- theism.

vehn,
I agree there does seem hard wiring toward superstition but I suggest not necessarily so naturally toward deity in the same way. It needs instruction as to what to be superstitious of


neophyte321
the ones sounding like "embittered, lost souls" are you and as usual ZZzz

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from stu:

.

vehn,
I agree there does seem hard wiring toward superstition but I suggest not necessarily so naturally toward deity in the same way. It needs instruction as to what to be superstitious of

i agree. the evidence for that would be the fact that in the vast majority if cases people believe in the same version of god that their parents believed in. to me that proves that belief in a deity is more indoctrination than enlightenment.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

The apolitical person, who has knowledge of politics and understanding of the concepts, may reject politics, or have no interest, but they don't take a position that politics does not exist...

Try as you might to deny it, your atheistic position is one of faith, and requires active mental effort to sustain itself, especially while living in a world dominated by theists...and the obvious hostility toward those of faith is abundant evidence of something much more than simple disinterest...

Quote from stu:

ddunbar,
I was not trying to hold the argument on a point of over simplistic emphasis, I am more trying to fill out the meaning. Whether one is in circumstance which leaves them ignorant of politics or rejecting interest in them from active reasoning , one would still be in fact a-political. Then the same would surely apply to a- theism.

vehn,
I agree there does seem hard wiring toward superstition but I suggest not necessarily so naturally toward deity in the same way. It needs instruction as to what to be superstitious of


neophyte321
the ones sounding like "embittered, lost souls" are you and as usual ZZzz

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

It may be that many adopt the beliefs of their parents, and that may the majority position, but that has nothing at all to do with God, or the concept of God. Many change religions, or find some religion after having none to begin with, or come to their own understanding and faith in God.

Nearly all learning of an authoritative nature is indoctrination to some extent in the formative years, and typically as people mature into teenage years and above, they reject what they have been indoctrinated into and spend time finding themselves and their own belief systems. Many eventually return to what their parents believed as it is comfortable and familiar, but none of this makes what is eventually taken on faith as necessarilyh true or false on the basis of how it was learned.

Quote from vhehn:

i agree. the evidence for that would be the fact that in the vast majority if cases people believe in the same version of god that their parents believed in. to me that proves that belief in a deity is more indoctrination than enlightenment.