Does Donald Trump Explain the Jesus Phenomenon?

[jem]

your work seems to be the detritus of a polluted mind. That you would even write such bigoted ridiculous shit is telling.

it does not surprise me that you use the pop psychology term of the last decade to describe a man who preached love and kindness.

you seem to suffer the disease of many who oppressed by Jesus. Perhaps you do not realize that even without Jesus your conscience would be telling you the same thing. Its not jesus causing you pain... Jesus is trying to show you the way out.

your call also echoes is the now familiar call from all those who have paid their therapist for hours and hours of work.

The non payer is always a the problem... and the more righteous the non paying person is, the more likely he or she will be called the Narcissist.

I had witnessed this as someone who dealt with many couples going through divorce and short sale or foreclosure. The cry of narcissist was almost always heard from one or the other. (Not all divorcing people are like that but the ones losing houses were very frequently.)

I asked a smart friend of mine (hiding out as a tennis pro with anxiety) who has been to a ton of shrinks during his life. He told me in therapy the one who wins is always the one who pays and the loser (the non payer) is almost always an oppressive narcissist.

Tee hee, we could write a book of a thousand pages demonstrating Jesus' Narcissism. so I won't belabor this. I'll just mention a couple Trump like tidbits. According to the word of God, which you've got to agree with, Jesus and God are the same. Admittedly this is tricky to pull off, but hey its God!

At one point Satan tells Jesus to Jump off the pinnacle of a Temple and let his angels save him. Now Jesus, knowing Satan has backed him into a corner and he is supposed to put up or shut up, has no desire to dash his brains on the Earth below, so he Tells Satan "Do not tempt the Lord your God." ( i.e., himself.) Then Jesus gets very ballsy, and this is extremely Trump like, he tells Satan**, "Begone, (i.e., your fired) for it is written You shall worship the Lord your God, and him (meaning himself) only shall you serve!!!" Talk about blatant Narcissism! Yikes. And speaking of "Fake News", Jesus went around telling a continuous lie, "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." And of course it was nowhere near at hand. He made the whole thing up. (Very Trump like! , evidencing both insanity and a brutal imagination.)

And there is hardly anything more narcissistic than this little tidbit: "So everyone who acknowledges me before men I will also acknowledge before my father who is in heaven." (wrong! and another lie) "But whoever denies me, I will also deny before my Father ... (So Jesus is throwing in a threat; again very Trump like.) And then Mr. Jesus the Narcissist goes on: "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on Earth . I haven't! I've come to bring a sword" (very Trump like!) "I've come to set man against his father; daughter against her mother; daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, and a man's foes will be those of his own household. (After this Trump-like tantrum, Jesus sneaks in a way to avoid all the chaos, which is just to admire and praise him and basically give him whatever he wants. Then, and only then, are you gonna be just fine.) And Jesus continues with this narcissistic diatribe. "He who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, blah blah blah, and he who refuses to don a Make America Great Hat (or take up his cross and follow me, as the case may be) is not worthy of me. He who loses his life for my sake will find it." (Yah right!) Talk about Narcissism! Yikes! And the entire New Testament, almost, is filled page after page with this Trump like tripe.
____________________
** Who turned out to be a very bad person, a showboater and a real loser. He is actually "Little Satan" with a dick the size of a kumquat".

 

[OddTrader]

Here is another important, imo, point I would like to clarify.

1. Can we talk about something that may not been proved its existence we are able to see/find? Something like that are called God, Sage, etc.

In Stoicism, sage is merely a model, this sage or wise man is hardly found, or never be found. Even the gurus or founding fathers in Stoicism would never claim they were sages, by saying that "I am not a sage".

A Stoic could have made mistakes or wrong decisions anytime, that might be knowingly or unknowingly to the Stoic. (S)he knew that (s)he is not perfect.

Stoics may not know any proven existence of sage, however they allow the model of sage exists. Recognising there is a possibility that sage exists somewhere they have not met/found yet. Or even a possibility that sage may never exist.

They build the sage model, and they improve the sage model. They talk about sage model and discuss about the sage model.

2. The construct of God can be similar. (Gravity or certer of mass is also a construct we need to operationally defined)

A God model can be built by merging/combining all the Universe + Nature + Reason/ Rational Principle + Logic + Cosmos + Natural Mystery to be explained + Logos/Words + General Law/ Principle of the Universe + Creation/ Evolution + All Things known and unknown + UFOs + Zeus/gods + Intelligence + Fate/ Systemic Causality + Some new concepts to be defined + Something people would never know/understand the existence + etc + etc., together. All-in-One!

Operationally, there is God, as described above for its existence. The model of God can exist. We are part of God. Everyone is part of God. Ever thing is part of God.

Just good fun! LOL

Construct (philosophy)

A construct in the philosophy of science is an ideal object, where the existence of the thing may be said to depend upon a subject's mind. This contrasts with a real object, where existence does not seem to depend on the existence of a mind.[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construct_(philosophy_of_science)

Other examples of constructs

In Biology
Genes, evolution, illness, taxonomy, immunity

In Physics/Astrophysics
Black holes, the Big Bang, Dark Matter, String Theory, molecular physics or atoms, gravity, center of mass

In Psychology
Intelligence or knowledge, emotions, personality, moods

Theories and Hypotheses

An object's center of mass is certainly a real thing, but it is a construct (not another object)

Diseases like Leukemia are important explanatory concepts, but do not 'exist' in the same way as a rock or a pencil

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leukemia

The word leukemia, which means 'white blood', is derived from the characteristic high white blood cell count that presents in most afflicted patients before treatment. The high number of white blood cells are apparent when a blood sample is viewed under a microscope, with the extra white blood cells frequently being immature or dysfunctional. The excessive number of cells can also interfere with the level of other cells, causing further harmful imbalance in the blood count.

Some leukemia patients do not have high white blood cell counts visible during a regular blood count. This less-common condition is called aleukemia. The bone marrow still contains cancerous white blood cells which disrupt the normal production of blood cells, but they remain in the marrow instead of entering the bloodstream, where they would be visible in a blood test. For an aleukemic patient, the white blood cell counts in the bloodstream can be normal or low. Aleukemia can occur in any of the four major types of leukemia, and is particularly common in hairy cell leukemia.[29]

 

[piezoe]

he appeared also to me.

That would have been impossible. But we are not talking about Paul, remember.
We are discussing Christ's Trump-like narcissism, only in Jesus Christ it's worse than in Trump, if that's possible.

 

[piezoe]

Perhaps you're right - from an atheist's view!

Perhaps someone else is also right - from a non-atheist view! LOL

Perhaps both can be wrong - too!

As mentioned from previous thread in detail, I look forward to seeing anytime soon someone to set up a research department/group of atheism studies! I can't/don't see any good reason not to proceed this idea!

I would think the problem for your proposed research department would be lack of anything to study! Atheism denotes the absence of something, viz., the absence of a belief in a god or deity. It should be difficult to study the non-existent. Nevertheless, clerics for two millennia have accomplished the seemingly impossible by insisting on studying the non-existent. Of course atheists sometimes express the view that believers are nuts, but that's not atheism.

I am trying to figure out how the question of whether the Christ described in the Bible exhibited symptoms of extreme narcissism could be a matter of whether one was a believer or an atheist. I am having trouble figuring that one out. Off hand, I don't see how that could be a factor if one insists on being rational.

I suppose the devout might say it's impossible for God to have a defective personality and therefore it's impossible for Christ to be a narcissist despite the Bibles description. In other words, when Christ of the Bible acts like a narcissistic horses ass, he is not acting like a narcissistic horses ass at all, because he is actually God masquerading as a Homo sapiens! This is the kind of argument Richard Nixon used when he said "When the President does it, it's not illegal". This is the equivalent of a "preemptive pardon". A Narcissist like Trump would surely try that if he thought he could pull it off. Hell, Trump might try it anyway!

It seems to me that whether there ever was, or wasn't, a Jesus Christ makes no difference when it comes to the question of whether the Christ described in the Bible exhibited extreme narcissism. It would seem there can be no question about that. All one has to do is read the New Testament to become convinced. I would be delighted to see someone post a rational counter argument, i.e., arguments other than one in the nature of the irrational argument I've offered above. I've not seen that yet. Instead all that's been offered are sidetracks, or invective hurled at the messenger, a specialty it seems of one of our thread participants. I am almost ready to conclude there aren't any rational counter arguments, and that I may be more correct than I had originally thought. That would be a first!

 

[piezoe]

your work seems to be the detritus of a polluted mind. That you would even write such bigoted ridiculous shit is telling.

it does not surprise me that you use the pop psychology term of the last decade to describe a man who preached love and kindness.

you seem to suffer the disease of many who oppressed by Jesus. Perhaps you do not realize that even without Jesus your conscience would be telling you the same thing. Its not jesus causing you pain... Jesus is trying to show you the way out.

your call also echoes is the now familiar call from all those who have paid their therapist for hours and hours of work.

The non payer is always a the problem... and the more righteous the non paying person is, the more likely he or she will be called the Narcissist.

I had witnessed this as someone who dealt with many couples going through divorce and short sale or foreclosure. The cry of narcissist was almost always heard from one or the other. (Not all divorcing people are like that but the ones losing houses were very frequently.)

I asked a smart friend of mine (hiding out as a tennis pro with anxiety) who has been to a ton of shrinks during his life. He told me in therapy the one who wins is always the one who pays and the loser (the non payer) is almost always an oppressive narcissist.

see also my most recent reply, immediately above, to Odd Trader's post. By the way, I'm still waiting for that counter argument.

 

[OddTrader]

I would think the problem for your proposed research department would be lack of anything to study! Atheism denotes the absence of something, viz., the absence of a belief in a god or deity. It should be difficult to study the non-existent. Nevertheless, clerics for two millennia have accomplished the seemingly impossible by insisting on studying the non-existent. Of course atheists sometimes express the view that believers are nuts, but that's not atheism.

I am trying to figure out how the question of whether the Christ described in the Bible exhibited symptoms of extreme narcissism could be a matter of whether one was a believer or an atheist. I am having trouble figuring that one out. Off hand, I don't see how that could be a factor if one insists on being rational.

I suppose the devout might say it's impossible for God to have a defective personality and therefore it's impossible for Christ to be a narcissist despite the Bibles description. In other words, when Christ of the Bible acts like a narcissistic horses ass, he is not acting like a narcissistic horses ass at all, because he is actually God masquerading as a Homo sapiens! This is the kind of argument Richard Nixon used when he said "When the President does it, it's not illegal". This is the equivalent of a "preemptive pardon". A Narcissist like Trump would surely try that if he thought he could pull it off. Hell, Trump might try it anyway!

It seems to me that whether there ever was, or wasn't, a Jesus Christ makes no difference when it comes to the question of whether the Christ described in the Bible exhibited extreme narcissism. It would seem there can be no question about that. All one has to do is read the New Testament to become convinced. I would be delighted to see someone post a rational counter argument, i.e., arguments other than one in the nature of the irrational argument I've offered above. I've not seen that yet. Instead all that's been offered are sidetracks, or invective hurled at the messenger, a specialty it seems of one of our thread participants. I am almost ready to conclude there aren't any rational counter arguments, and that I may be more correct than I had originally thought. That would be a first!

Obviously you are too intelligent to put too many topics/ issues in just one post that would require too much time to re-post what I already mentioned before in several other ET threads that you may easily find.

Many people have been brain-washed by the conventions of an outdated holy book in a certain faith. Even worse is to use many man made theological concepts/terms to interpret their own questions in order to clarify some/many confusing issues/concepts.

It would take time to digest something completely new against previously learned that already built-in into one's brain for too long time.

Posting one question about how to make consistently profitable trading on ET while expecting/ wanting to get all answers is not easy, if not impossible. But I haven't seen any one thing close yet.

Good luck to your journey, my friend! Unlearn the old then relearn the new possibly the best way, as something similar that Jesus once said.

Jesus' theory was/is meant to set souls/minds free (liberty) - keeping oneself away from the old stuff!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_on_the_Roof

Fiddler on the Roof is a musical with music by Jerry Bock, lyrics by Sheldon Harnick, and book by Joseph Stein, set in the Pale of Settlement of Imperial Russia in 1905. It is based on Tevye and his Daughters (or Tevye the Dairyman) and other tales by Sholem Aleichem. The story centers on Tevye, the father of five daughters, and his attempts to maintain his Jewish religious and cultural traditions as outside influences encroach upon the family's lives. He must cope both with the strong-willed actions of his three older daughters, who wish to marry for love – each one's choice of a husband moves further away from the customs of his faith – and with the edict of the Tsar that evicts the Jews from their village.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_on_the_Roof_(film)

https://elitetrader.com/et/threads/...re-the-words-of-jesus-and-moses.157885/page-4

Free Thinker said:
THE Jesus seminar, a group of 150 bible scholars, determined that only about 20% of the sayings attributed to jesus in the bible actually happened:

The Seminar concluded that of the various statements in the "five gospels" attributed to Jesus, only about 18% of them were likely uttered by Jesus himself (red or pink). The Gospel of John fared worse than the synoptic gospels, with nearly all its passages attributed to Jesus being judged inauthentic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar
http://www.westarinstitute.org/Seminars/seminars.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mary
http://gnosis.org/library/marygosp.htm

The book below is useful.

* Traditional Logic and Fuzzy Thinking - NYU
www.nyu.edu/classes/keefer/ww1/fuzz.html - Cached - Similar
TRADITIONAL LOGIC VERSUS FUZZY THINKING ... Traditional logic was first systematized by Aristotle in Classical Athens, B.C. and has been renewed and ...

* Fuzzy logic - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic - Cached - Similar
By contrast, in Boolean logic, the truth values of variables may only be the integer values 0 or 1.
Fuzzy logic is a form of many-valued logic in which the truth values of variables may be any real .....

* Fuzzy thinking: the new science of fuzzy logic. New York: ...
‎Overview - ‎Forming a consensus of ... - ‎Logical analysis - ‎Fuzzy databases
Fuzzy Thinking: The New Science of Fuzzy Logic: Bart Kosko ...
Fuzzy Thinking: The New Science of Fuzzy Logic [Bart Kosko] on Amazon.com. * FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. A washing machine that gauges each load ...

https://delishably.com/meat-dishes/steak-rare-medium-well-done

What Are the Levels of Steak Doneness?

Well done: Grayish-brown with no sign of pink. It's usually slightly charred on the outside. Cooking a good steak to this level of doneness is a challenge. It has to be done slowly on low heat, or else you end up with shoe leather.

Medium well: Mostly gray-brown throughout, but with a hint of pale pink inside. Good for someone who wants an ever-so-slightly juicy steak, but detests any sign of "blood" in their meat.

Medium: A more pronounced band of pink in the middle of the steak. However, there should still be slightly more gray-brown than pink coloration.

Medium rare: Warm and has a mostly pink-to-red center. Firm on the outside, soft and juicy on the inside.

Rare: Cool or warm red center. It's nearly like raw meat, but obviously cooked on the outside.
Very rare or blue: Red, cool, and practically raw. It's barely cooked for the true carnivores amongst us.

Raw: I think this one is self-explanatory. Die-hard carnivores can go for this.

 

[OddTrader]

https://elitetrader.com/et/threads/...re-the-words-of-jesus-and-moses.157885/page-4

THE Jesus seminar, a group of 150 bible scholars, determined that only about 20% of the sayings attributed to jesus in the bible actually happened:

The Seminar concluded that of the various statements in the "five gospels" attributed to Jesus, only about 18% of them were likely uttered by Jesus himself (red or pink). The Gospel of John fared worse than the synoptic gospels, with nearly all its passages attributed to Jesus being judged inauthentic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar
http://www.westarinstitute.org/Seminars/seminars.html

Was Paul truly a real disciple of Jesus? Strictly speaking, No, he was not.

1. What did he learn directly from Jesus. No, nothing, no chance, since he himself had never met Jesus physically. Jesus got many followers to learn his theory, but noly some were disciples who were even living and eating close to Jesus. Other followers/learners may live far away.

2. Disciples learn not from letters. They read the person life and they learn from the person's spoken words that the same words can have different meaning for different situations/contexts, subject to interpretation. Disciples therefore understand they cannot use the same words and principles for all disregarding situations/contexts. Otherwise, wrong decisions/applications. That could be one of the main reasons Jesus did not write down anything in order to avoid misleading interpretations.


3. Example:

Real/historical Jesus: If you hungry and weak or sick then you're blessed, please come to me as I will feed you what I have got to offer. After you get well, you may go home and don't tell anyone! Since I myself usually don't have much (space or food) to offer yet.

Theological/canonised Jesus: If you are weak (and/or hungry) then you can't share the bread with us, go home for reflections of your sin until you get well (you should know/learn how and by what from somewhere else as I don't want to tell you now). My place is mainly for healthy and wealthy people who then are allowed to stay for bread and worship.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 21:28-32

The Parable of the Two Sons

28 “What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’

29 “‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.

30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.

Atheists? Believers? Non-believers? ...?

https://elitetrader.com/et/threads/...oth-christian-republican.311988/#post-4497994

4. Another example

Original sin derived from Adam, according to St Paul?

The fact showed below: Jesus didn't think so! Just as any independent/systems thinker do.

The Gospel of Mary

http://gnosis.org/library/marygosp.htm

Chapter 4

(Pages 1 to 6 of the manuscript, containing chapters 1 - 3, are lost. The extant text starts on page 7...)

. . . Will matter then be destroyed or not?

22) The Savior said, All nature, all formations, all creatures exist in and with one another, and they will be resolved again into their own roots.

23) For the nature of matter is resolved into the roots of its own nature alone.

24) He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

25) Peter said to him, Since you have explained everything to us, tell us this also: What is the sin of the world?

26) The Savior said There is no sin, but it is you who make sin when you do the things that are like the nature of adultery, which is called sin.

27) That is why the Good came into your midst, to the essence of every nature in order to restore it to its root.

28) Then He continued and said, That is why you become sick and die, for you are deprived of the one who can heal you.

29) He who has a mind to understand, let him understand.

30) Matter gave birth to a passion that has no equal, which proceeded from something contrary to nature. Then there arises a disturbance in its whole body.

31) That is why I said to you, Be of good courage, and if you are discouraged be encouraged in the presence of the different forms of nature.

 

[O(1)]

The Roots of Narcissism
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight-is-2020/201701/the-roots-narcissism

 

[OddTrader]

https://elitetrader.com/et/threads/...re-the-words-of-jesus-and-moses.157885/page-4


Was Paul truly a real disciple of Jesus? Strictly speaking, No, he was not.

1. What did he learn directly from Jesus. No, nothing, no chance, since he himself had never met Jesus physically. Jesus got many followers to learn his theory, but noly some were disciples who were even living and eating close to Jesus. Other followers/learners may live far away.

2. Disciples learn not from letters. They read the person life and they learn from the person's spoken words that the same words can have different meaning for different situations/contexts, subject to interpretation. Disciples therefore understand they cannot use the same words and principles for all disregarding situations/contexts. Otherwise, wrong decisions/applications. That could be one of the main reasons Jesus did not write down anything in order to avoid misleading interpretations.


3. Example:

Real/historical Jesus: If you hungry and weak or sick then you're blessed, please come to me as I will feed you what I have got to offer. After you get well, you may go home and don't tell anyone! Since I myself usually don't have much (space or food) to offer yet.

Theological/canonised Jesus: If you are weak (and/or hungry) then you can't share the bread with us, go home for reflections of your sin until you get well (you should know/learn how and by what from somewhere else as I don't want to tell you now). My place is mainly for healthy and wealthy people who then are allowed to stay for bread and worship.


https://elitetrader.com/et/threads/...oth-christian-republican.311988/#post-4497994

4. Another example

Original sin derived from Adam, according to St Paul?

The fact showed below: Jesus didn't think so! Just as any independent/systems thinker do.

5. Another Example

Canonised Jesus, according to Paul:
God is limited/dictated/defined by the holy book written by Man called St Paul. God cannot do anything the holy book does not allow Him (i.e. God) to do. The holy book hence is greater, of higher power and authority, and smarter than God, because the author/a-Man is more intelligent and having better all-rounded knowledge than God. The holy book is easy to read/learn and never change. God doing anything beyond the holy book's written contents is problematic, and should be abolished. The holy book is above man-made laws. Any argument or legal battle requiring lawyers to be judged in court is usually affordable mainly to selected people. This God, although smaller/inferior than the holy book, however, is great, still great for daily praise!

This God is separated from Man far away while staying in the heaven where one day only believers can go, perhaps God's unconditional grace preached weekly is only conditionally for believers and loves only believers. Is this great? People learn to know how smart/wise the holy book is! The universe/nature people daily live is just insignificantly smaller than God therefore the nature environment is not that important at all. What people should care and only care is specified all in the holy book, not God's creatures in the nature.


VS


Historical Jesus, according to http://gnosis.org/library/marygosp.htm:
God is everything and all things in the universe/nature. God/universe/nature and Man is one. Love/rationality is the law. There is only one law, the law of nature/universe. People learn from the nature/universe. No any other written law is greater or needed.

God/universe/nature is for everyone equally. God is with us every moment. God and Man is one. Man simply lives in the universe/nature/God. Science is an effective way/investigation for methodically understand more about God/universe/nature. Man knows how small/unwise we are, when comparing to God/Universe/Nature. Man learns from the nature how to care the nature and all creatures - even without learning anything from any book, such as this dog below. LOL

Published on Jul 19, 2017
" Brave Dog Saves Baby Deer From Drowning | This very brave dog saved a baby deer from drowning — but then she jumped back in and someone else had to rescue her!"

Chapter 4

(Pages 1 to 6 of the manuscript, containing chapters 1 - 3, are lost. The extant text starts on page 7...)

. . . Will matter then be destroyed or not?

22) The Savior said, All nature, all formations, all creatures exist in and with one another, and they will be resolved again into their own roots.

23) For the nature of matter is resolved into the roots of its own nature alone.

24) He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

25) Peter said to him, Since you have explained everything to us, tell us this also: What is the sin of the world?

26) The Savior said There is no sin, but it is you who make sin when you do the things that are like the nature of adultery, which is called sin.

27) That is why the Good came into your midst, to the essence of every nature in order to restore it to its root.

28) Then He continued and said, That is why you become sick and die, for you are deprived of the one who can heal you.

29) He who has a mind to understand, let him understand.

30) Matter gave birth to a passion that has no equal, which proceeded from something contrary to nature. Then there arises a disturbance in its whole body.

31) That is why I said to you, Be of good courage, and if you are discouraged be encouraged in the presence of the different forms of nature.

 

[piezoe]

Obviously you are too intelligent to put too many topics/ issues in just one post that would require too much time to re-post what I already mentioned before in several other ET threads that you may easily find.

Many people have been brain-washed by the conventions of an outdated holy book in a certain faith. Even worse is to use many man made theological concepts/terms to interpret their own questions in order to clarify some/many confusing issues/concepts.

It would take time to digest something completely new against previously learned that already built-in into one's brain for too long time.

Posting one question about how to make consistently profitable trading on ET while expecting/ wanting to get all answers is not easy, if not impossible. But I haven't seen any one thing close yet.

Good luck to your journey, my friend! Unlearn the old then relearn the new possibly the best way, as something similar that Jesus once said.

Jesus' theory was/is meant to set souls/minds free (liberty) - keeping oneself away from the old stuff!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_on_the_Roof

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_on_the_Roof_(film)





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mary
http://gnosis.org/library/marygosp.htm

The book below is useful.

I've read your interesting posts and you gave a number of informative links. You have offered some hypotheses for which there may be, or may not be, a modicum of evidence, beyond mere theological conjecture, that there was a real historical Jesus who actually said only some small, approximately one-fifth, of the things the Biblical Jesus is recounted as having said. Thus the picture the New Testament paints of an extremely narcissistic Jesus, and a rather horrible person judged by modern standards, may be very unreliable. I except fully that that may be the case, though I tend to think that if there was a real Jesus, for which the evidence is considerably weaker then the devout generally acknowledge, our knowledge of such is quite sketchy, unless of course we are prepared to take the Bible, on faith, as an accurate account.

I thank you for pointing out that it's possible that the Biblical account is very inaccurate.

The thread I started, somewhat tongue in cheek, is only concerned with the Jesus of the New Testament. That Jesus exhibited pathological narcissism quite similar to Donald Trump's narcissism. Therefore, I hypothesized that many of the super natural miracles attributed to Jesus in the Bible may have had their origin largely in pathological lies told by the Biblical Jesus. Of course, if there was no Biblical Jesus Christ, but instead another Christ only very poorly described in the New Testament, then the narcissistic character in the New Testament might simply be the result of clerics' or religion promoters' imaginations. That wouldn't, I would think, necessarily rule out narcissism and pathological lying as being a contributor to the, under those circumstances, "fake news" of the New Testament. But it wouldn't rule it in either. I suppose the New Testament account could be the sincere work of honest , truthful, well-meaning, and mentally sound clerics who were under the misconception that Christ was an asshole, and therefore described him as such.