Does anyone *make a living* swing trading or long term investing?

[Trader KGB]

Quote from cashmoney69:

Patience is not a critical factor.

I disagree. I think patience is absolutely critical for 2 important aspects of swing trading:

1) Waiting for the highest probability setups before entering a trade

2) Letting your winners run

I'm especially guilty of #2. I thought I won my last "left the most money on the table" trophy back with AKAM in '03, but the market hands me a nice "virtue" reminder every once in a while...

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82142&perpage=6&pagenumber=2

 

[cashmoney69]

What I ment by "Patience is not a critical factor" is that because it's a TRADE, time frame is much smaller than that of an investment, or a position trade for that matter.

You also said that "Swing trading, by its very nature, is a strategy that rewards patience".... arn't all forms of trading about waiting for a set up?.. even scalpers must have patience to some degree even if very little.

cm69

 

[lauriston]

Quote from Trader KGB:


Swing trading, by its very nature, is a strategy that rewards patience. Thus, one of the strongest aspects that has made me a profitable swing trader over the years has been my full-time work, as I tend to take profits far too quickly if I only have the market to occupy my time. If you're swing trading the daily/weekly chart, you certainly don't need to be a "tick hound" in front of the screen all day.

In my experience, swing setups tend to have a stronger probability of following technical patterns than the intraday time period. A great example is today's ascending triangle breakout of the euro, about as textbook as it gets.

I say Amen to that! Excellent comments, I can relate to that completely. That is what swing trading is all about. Patience patience patience! Yes, you can make a living swing trading, but be prepared to slog through a great deal to find what works for you as an individual http://lauristonletter.blogspot.com/

 

[stock_trad3r]

To make a living trading you need 200K or more of cash to begin with. Otherwise you simply wont make that much money. 10% of 50K is only 5K whoopdeedoo thats not much money.

 

[DHOHHI]

Quote from stock_trad3r:

To make a living trading you need 200K or more of cash to begin with. Otherwise you simply wont make that much money. 10% of 50K is only 5K whoopdeedoo thats not much money.

No, you don't need $200K or more. One can make a living trading with less. I used around $100K for 10 years. With BP of 4x a $100K cash account has $400K BP, enough to make a living (assume one has a system that they know can work). And a good trader, can (and sometimes does) make over 100% in a given year. As one example, last year I made 130% on a $100K account.

 

[makloda]

Quote from Joab:
This would be true only if you were a machine and had no flexibility.

As if "flexibility" (read: using ones gut feeling) led to superior results.

 

[makloda]

Quote from DHOHHI:
No, you don't need $200K or more. One can make a living trading with less. I used around $100K for 10 years. With BP of 4x a $100K cash account has $400K BP, enough to make a living (assume one has a system that they know can work). And a good trader, can (and sometimes does) make over 100% in a given year. As one example, last year I made 130% on a $100K account.

The point I am missing is the level of risk taken for each % point gained. Yes, you can make a living with a 100k account (hell you "can" make 1 million each year with a 10k account) but the level of risk you have to take is significantly higher than trading a 500k account if you were to aim for the same absolute $ return.

 

[Joab]

I don't know if Patience is as important in Swing Trading as is diligence.

I sift through over 200 charts per night (by hand) after I've screened through 10,000.

This is the one thing (only one) that I agree with Cramer on.

You MUST do your homework.

 

[DHOHHI]

Quote from makloda:

The point I am missing is the level of risk taken for each % point gained. Yes, you can make a living with a 100k account (hell you "can" make 1 million each year with a 10k account) but the level of risk you have to take is significantly higher than trading a 500k account if you were to aim for the same absolute $ return.

May or may not be more risk with the smaller account. Much depends on the trader themself and their discipline and money management skills. One can take as much risk trading $500K as trading $100K by trading highly volatile stocks. That said, if one "aims" for a target $$$$ return (per your statement) then what do they do when they achieve it? Say one hits the target by August ...

 

[good one]

Quote from DHOHHI:

No, you don't need $200K or more. One can make a living trading with less. I used around $100K for 10 years. With BP of 4x a $100K cash account has $400K BP, enough to make a living (assume one has a system that they know can work). And a good trader, can (and sometimes does) make over 100% in a given year. As one example, last year I made 130% on a $100K account.

i'm sure it can be done but why would someone want to on 100k if swing/investing? that seems like a strategy that can be done for a few years if your lucky considering you almost would have to throw risk management out the window, but the account would not be building so when you hit a bad year you will be back at a job eventually.
my goal is to trade $700k of my own money 10 years from now. then even a so so year of 10% is still adding to the account and you have something to draw down against to live on in a bad year with a nice stake left over still.