Does anyone actually believe in God or are they just afraid...

[Trader666]

The fine tuning argument from religion is in any event baseless.

No, it's from science.

If the constants of the Universe have to be fine tuned, it merely suggests any presumed tuner has very limited choices. .

No, it merely suggests that any presumed creator chose to make the universe as it exists and not some other way.

Poof goes the idea of an all-powerful almighty God when it is possible only to select from a specific set of values to successfully magic a universe.

So it's more logical to you that the universe in all its complexity simply magicked itself into existence from absolutely nothing just because your "god" said so (who BTW doesn't even know the composition of over 95% of the universe)?

 

[jem]

nice diversion troll.
after hundreds of pages of me making statements on this issue and being correct.
that is the best you could do?
first of all I stated the weaker argument 95% of the time...
But, at one point in these 7 years... I also proved the stronger statement to be true as well.

in short stu, you troll, both statements are true.

Even in the Weinberg video... Weinberg said something like of course our universe is very finely tuned for life... its not even an argument... we are here.
(that is a paraphrase as I am not going to look it up right now.)

Quote from Jem: lying about what Jem said...

 

[stu]

after hundreds of pages of me making statements on this issue and being correct.

Just a couple of posts previous, anyone can see how you even lie to yourself, so it's not surprising there's no truth in the above.

both statements are true

Likewise then, both statements - the Earth appears flat and the Earth is flat, you're saying are true
At least you’re making progress. Unfortunately it's only into more self deceit.

 

[stu]

No, it merely suggests that any presumed creator chose to make the universe as it exists and not some other way.

Take it up with Jem then. He's saying it can't be any other way. Were things any different the universe would "crush" as he puts it and "would be a disaster". Clearly suggesting the presumed Creator has no alternative, no other choice. No free will!

 

[jem]

speak for yourself troll... that is not what I am saying.

Take it up with Jem then. He's saying it can't be any other way. Were things any different the universe would "crush" as he puts it and "would be a disaster". Clearly suggesting the presumed Creator has no alternative, no other choice. No free will!

 

[jem]

attempting to divert attention from the fact you have been caught in 7 years of lies. Now, even your own citation has told you the constants of our universe appear finely tuned for life.

Just a couple of posts previous, anyone can see how you even lie to yourself, so it's not surprising there's no truth in the above.



Likewise then, both statements - the Earth appears flat and the Earth is flat, you're saying are true
At least you’re making progress. Unfortunately it's only into more self deceit.

 

[futurecurrents]

Just a couple of posts previous, anyone can see how you even lie to yourself, so it's not surprising there's no truth in the above.



Likewise then, both statements - the Earth appears flat and the Earth is flat, you're saying are true
At least you’re making progress. Unfortunately it's only into more self deceit.

That's what jem does....self deceit. Good call. And he has the nerve to call you a liar. Ha!

 

[jem]

oh look tweedle dum comes in to cheer for geppeto and change the subject away from stu's lies about the fine tuning to some other lies and misrepresentations.

That's what jem does....self deceit. Good call. And he has the nerve to call you a liar. Ha!

 

[bigarrow]

oh look tweedle dum comes in to cheer for geppeto and change the subject away from stu's lies about the fine tuning to some other lies and misrepresentations.

What proof is there that was ever any tuning. Isn't all you've shown is proof of the way things are, not tuning. Tuning means to adjust, what was it adjusted from ?? How was it adjusted ?? Just because the cosmological constant is what it is does not mean that it used to be something else or that it could be something else.
It seems like your argument is we don't know why, thus there is a god.

 

[stu]

... that is not what I am saying.

Right, so now after 7 years, you're no longer saying your "Creator" chose or could have chosen to make the universe as it exists.

If it didn't choose to, then the Universe.... what exactly?...doesn't exist?:eek:
If it did choose to make it the way the Universe does exist then, according to what you're forever mumbling and posting the same old lumps of text and vids about, it couldn't have "fine tuned" it. Your "Creator" had no choice. No free will.

Time to bring out your sockpuppet again