Does any one make money intrady trading

Quote from kjkent1:

I won't flame you. I've pretty much done everything you've described above except that I did it from home.

The problem, in my experience is the "decent commission rate" and getting credible executions, assuming that you find a decent rate (which goes to the issue of the "good prop shop").

So, perhaps you can quantify both of the above for me.

Yep, my friend did exactly the same thing and after a year was out his $20,000. He learned his lesson and is now back at work doing consulting. It is very difficult for a novice scalper to beat professionals. In the meantime, the novice is just providing the professionals their easy money.

Rich
 
Quote from Don Bright:

The discussion of "proof" reminds of something I did a few years ago. I sponsored a panel of industry "professionals" - book writers, seminar givers, chat room types...guru's of all sorts. I'm talking the "usual suspects" - names you've seen a million times.

I originally had about 28 respondents. I only wanted 6 or 8. I told the respondents that I would like to make this panel "real" - and asked that they simply show me the last couple of years' tax return (segments, not even the whole thing) that reflected only a paltry sum of $50K). Well that narrowed the field down to 4, and 2 were my brother and I, LOL.
Don :p :eek:


Yikes! That's a scary story. Thanks for sharing.
 
There are a lot of people out there making good money in intraday trading. But it is extremely difficult. Ive found that experience is everything... At least for me.

Some of the psychology reports Ive seen say that to be successful trader you need more good traits than in most other businesses. Meaning you need to work hard to succeed.

To the guy offering 10k for mentoring. Offer a beer. pizza and a good movie and a laugh. Most successful traders need to get out more than they need 10k. And then ask them.

OR
 
Quote from richrf:

Yep, my friend did exactly the same thing and after a year was out his $20,000. He learned his lesson and is now back at work doing consulting. It is very difficult for a novice scalper to beat professionals. In the meantime, the novice is just providing the professionals their easy money.

Rich

Your friend made the classic beginner's mistake of trading TOO MUCH SIZE. I don't even have to know his story to know this. Every newbie who starts from scratch and blows his account within a year is simply taking too much risk relative to his skill/knowledge level.

There's no rule saying you must trade 1000 shares at a clip. The first goal of trading is ALWAYS to preserve your capital.

NYOB gave good advice. Get a reasonable commission rate, trade the smallest size possible and learn by doing. Focus only on proper execution and developing and tweaking a trade plan. Keep good records, work hard, don't pass responsibility off to anybody else. If you can last long enough to figure it out, you'll be golden. Lasting means not running out of money.

And if you need trading income to pay the bills, you're already sunk. Come back when you have a year or two of living expenses saved up.
 
Quote from ORM:

There are a lot of people out there making good money in intraday trading. But it is extremely difficult. Ive found that experience is everything... At least for me.

Some of the psychology reports Ive seen say that to be successful trader you need more good traits than in most other businesses. Meaning you need to work hard to succeed.

To the guy offering 10k for mentoring. Offer a beer. pizza and a good movie and a laugh. Most successful traders need to get out more than they need 10k. And then ask them.

OR
Okay, anyone want pizza and beer in exchange for 5 years worth of tax returns and mentoring?

ROFLMAO!
 
<i>"Okay, anyone want pizza and beer in exchange for 5 years worth of tax returns and mentoring? ROFLMAO!"</i>

Well, I'm on my way out for a dozen wings and a couple of Blue Lites right now. If you can make it to the Middletown Tavern by 8:00pm est, it's a deal.

If not, here's another offer:

I'll show you how to trade eminis intraday, everything you need to know in one trading week. Five sessions, Monday thru Friday. One chart, simple rules, you bring the self-discipline and apply generously.

That in exchange for your $10k. I'll fly to your home / office, put myself up in a local hotel and pay for my own meals. If I'm not profitable by at least +20pts ES for the week, you keep your money and it costs you nothing to watch me fail.

Simple approach, basic rules, your self-discipline required and full access to visit with me as your developing education mandates.

*

A five-year track record means nothing. What if someone just started making money one year ago, six months ago and will continue forward for the rest of their career?

What if someone has a five-year track record of success... built on a method = approach that works great in low volatility conditions only? What if their success was built on averaging down on long trades into dips only?

**

Risk-free offer to you stands on its own live performance merit
 
Quote from kjkent1:

Frankly, I think any commission where you can't get out with a profit on a penny roundtrip is too much, because it causes you to have to think about whether or not to pull the trigger and save yourself.

With that attitude you are doomed
 
I believe trading profitably intra day can be achieved. I myself can not seem to make a dime intra day though. Its weird because I am very profitable swing trading and position trading but when I try to day trade it all changes! Regardless though it is possible (have seen many traders trade intra day and profit huge)
 
trading is a business. the vast majority of businesses in ANY industry fail

trading is no different.

the primary difference between trading an other businesses, is that in almost any other business you do not need to directly risk capital to make money.

in trading, no matter how good you get, and how much capital you amass, every time you want to make more, you HAVE to risk capital.

thus, in trading - risk management (and this includes money management, not overleveraging, being patient, respecting stops ALWAYS etc.) is far more important than in most other businesses.

are the setups important? sure. but a trader w/o a good business plan, the proper psychological approach, etc. will still lose money with my setups.

when i invest, i buy stocks for the longterm. i've had AAPL (for instance) for several years. i've had PG for a decade. etc. i may trade around a core position intraday, use covered calls, protective puts sometimes, but in general, i just buy good stocks on weakness. i'm 50% buffett, and 50% labrador retriever :) (obscure reference)

when it comes to TRADING, i trade futures almost exclusively.

imo, if you can't CLEARLY define what your edge is, you don't have a rock solid business plan, you don't understand risk, etc. , and you don't have the patience to wait until you have an EDGE before you enter a TRADE (i strongly distinguish trades from investments) - you will almost certainly lose, like most traders.

futures, unlike stocks, are zero sum. on ANY day, there is exactly the same amount of money won vs. lost in terms of overall positions. every tick that causes an aggregate of $$$$ lost among 50% of positions, is correspondingly benefiting the exact same # of positions (contracts, specifically) with the exact same $$$ gain. that's math, and its incontrovertible.

so, SOMEBODY is making money. research reveals that most of the volume in futures (90%) is less than 10% of the participants. you need to understand what moves markets, how to find it, and where trades are most opportune.

you MAY be able to trade successfully (stocks) using neato keen indicators etc. . i don't know. that's not how i trade. i do suspect that the vast majority of profitable futures traders (myself included) are not using much if any lagging indicators ( i don't), . let retail traders play with moving averages, oscillators, and whatnot. i don't see an edge there (for me), so i don't use them.

chances are if you are doing what everybody else is doing - you won't make money. cause they are losing money. trust me on that. find your edge, develop your trading/business/risk management plan, then trade.

as for mentors. ime, generally speaking, the ones who seek mentors are already demonstrating a professionalism - a willingness to invest in their education. the average trader thinks he can do it on his own - and most can't. they'd rather throw away thousands of dollars "learning" (*learning how to lose) than invest in learning how to make money. their bad.

but in brief, if you are 1) undercapitalized 2) unable to manage risk with ROCK SOLID discipline 3) don't have a business plan 4) don' t have a clearly defined edge - you will most likely blow your account out.
 
Quote from NYOBScalper:

I always say this in every thread and people disregard it, but eh...

Before people flame me, it's basically how I got to where i am, and it's what works for me... and this is how I learned.

just take the 10k, open up an account with a good prop firm, get a decent commission rate.

Limit yourself to $50/day in losses and trade 100 shares. Learn to scalp. Try to go in and out as many times as possible, and focus strictly on the time & sales and order books. Don't trade stocks over $70-80ish, find stocks with volume under 2-3 million so that the noise doesn't confuse you, and limit losses to 5-10 cents MAX.

You won't know what you're doing for a while, but if you stick to those loss limits, you'll be able to last 10 months where every day you max out your loss before going out of the game. You will have losing days where you don't max out and you will have winning days, so with that risk management plan, you can stay in the game long enough to learn it.

Look for stocks that are moving and have nice wide ranges, and focus on the time and sales and the order books. The chart lacks the detail that the time & sales gives you - the detail necessary for a true edge.

If you decide learning the proper way (instead of paying someone to spoon feed you something that must be eaten witn your own hands) and follow my plan, I'll help you for free. Show me two months of runs doing what I said, and after that, pick one two trades daily of yours which you have a specific question about, and I will answer the question. A specific question isn't "was this a good trade," but "i figured after I lifted that .50 offer, it should immediately go .60 bid, but no one who was short seemed to be panicking, why not, it looked the same as what happened two hours ago a point down...".

And no, I won't show you my tax returns.

If you stare at the tape long enough it will make sense. The same shit happens every single day time and time again. But you need the will to want to do it that badly, and the discipline to stick to the max loss rules I said, as well as to cut losers to a few cents and you will make it.

At the end of your trading days, review all your trades and watch the price action again. Go through time & sales scrolling, or use a video recording program like Camtasia to record your LII/TAS and review review review.

Please people don't flame me because your style is different than mine and you think what I'm saying is bad advice. I'm genuinely trying to help the guy with what I know. I'm profitable.



Iam not going to flame you for trying to help a guy out.

But"And no, I won't show you my tax returns" = you don't make money.

Not everyone is an idiot and if you been in this game long enough you would know this and wouldn't post something like that.



I read Mr Bright post and he is dead on. Alot talk but can't walk.
 
Back
Top