Do You Think Trading is Gambling?

[limitdown]

Quote from Mr J:

Any credible dictionary will disagree with you. Respectable, honest and legal professions? The financial markets are as dodgy as the 'gambling' markets, and about as many people have no idea.

The negative connotation is generated by the ignorant masses, so if your problem is that people look down upon what may or may not be your profession, then your problem is with them.

I just knew someone was going to take me to task on that one!

and you did! touche'


some of these MBA, suit and tie wearing sluts are worse whores than those in the recognized professions.....

at least those types are public about their mores (pronounced moh-rays)....

for example,

....

well substitute just about any company you want to out there, including the so-called respectable ones too...

 

[limitdown]

Quote from Jachyra:

Ok, I can't believe this thread keeps popping up and has gone on for 16 pages, because its such a simple answer and anyone who doesn't know the answer immediately, certainly shouldn't be engaging in any odds-based business, particularly trading.

The definition of gambling is, "to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gambling

guess I will see you in line at the confessional, right behind the other sinners....

hey, let me know if the lines are shorter at your parish or in midtown....

seems even buying lunch is gambling, by that definition,
seems buying medical care or regular medical check-ups are gambling,

seems like buying a loaf of bread and hoping that its fresh, or buying a jar of peanut butter and hoping that its not loaded with salmonella, like the recent news events have shown, are all gambling too...

broad definition with such negative social connotations,

generally people that have a challenge of faith or issues of morality lump trading with gambling,

funny, how the guys at the (race) track never consider themselves habitual, but they are as regular in attendance as municipal paycheck...

guess we are all in denial, you know, Egypt.....

 

[OzMega]

In an effort to distinguish between ‘Gambling’ and ‘Non-Gambling’ activity, many have argued that, “Anytime you put your money at risk, you are gambling,” or some variation on that theme. Which begs the question, “Have you found a way to NOT put your money at risk?” A Holy Grail of sorts? An infallible way to protect your purchasing power against all enemies foreign and domestic? Me thinks not. Your money is ALWAYS at a risk of loss. Like anything else, currency carries an intrinsic risk of loss(you can’t opt out), so this argument is simply unfounded.

Please don’t kid yourself about an FDIC savings account or some similar type instrument either. Your “numbers” only matter in a relative sense. With the advent of a fiat currency, your gummit can print you into submission if need be.

If you still think gambling and trading are the same, try this simple experiment: If you say “Doyle Brunson is a great Gambler,” then everyone can agree(at least those who know of him) this is a true statement. However, if you say “Doyle Brunson is a great Trader,” the sentence becomes nonsensical. Clearly the words convey different meanings, they are not synonyms, nor are they equivalent.

If it still isn’t clear, then call your travel agent. Be specific and to the point. Tell him, “Please listen closely. Eventually I would like to get a job as a Professional Trader, so I want you to schedule me for a week of Trading Training in Vegas. I only want to spend my time in classes with Professional Traders. I don’t want to do anything else but learn how to become a Professional Trader.” My guess is you will probably end up at Bright Trading’s corporate headquarters and not in a card counting class.

In any event, it has been interesting reading some of these postings. It does seem strange that so many vehemently wish to view their livelihood as nothing more than a crapshoot, but it appears some are long that position. Someone once said that “Everyone gets what they want out of the market.” I suppose that’s true for Gamblers too. Ultimately it’s your world …you can put the trees wherever you like…

THE BOTTOM LINE:
Traders are NOT Gamblers. However, there are a great many Gamblers who donate to our cause!

To all the Traders out there, Cheers! And Happy Trading!
To all the Gamblers ….well ...good luck!

 

[JSSPMK]

You guys keep talking about whether in principle putting on a tarde is a gamble or not a gamble, though OP is asking whether TRADING is gambling. Just because trading offers risk to capital it doesn't automatically fire it up into a gambling category. There's a bunch of other ways of putting money at play & what if it doesn't work out you would call it gambling with money? Don't be ridiculous please. And if you throw in the ever so popular 'unknown outcome', then I would say this - if Walmart decides to open another megastore & it doesn't meet match performance of their other stores & they decide to shut it down, then I suppose you would call it a gamble on their part? There are profitable & unprofitable strategies, end of.

 

[Mr J]

Quote from OzMega:

Your money is ALWAYS at a risk of loss. Like anything else, currency carries an intrinsic risk of loss(you can’t opt out), so this argument is simply unfounded.

There is another conclusion to draw, and that is you're always gambling with your wealth . Arguably, every action we take is a gamble.

As for your comment about Doyle Brunson, why are you differentiating between a +ev poker player and a +ev trader? Why is one a gambler why the other is not? They both are knowledgeable and have an edge, so what's the difference? Answer is that there is no difference.

Brunson is a trader of sorts - he's trading on the value of his position. I was a sportsbettor and I traded the prices of sports events.

 

[SCI new york]

Trading is gambling, no matter what moronic logic you try and use to dispute that fact. If you don't think so, you're in denial. Market speculation is exactly that, speculation. There is no guarantee in trading/markets/gambling. You try to have the most/best edges you can but that doesnt change the fact that you're betting. On a trade you're betting you're on the correct side of the trade to increase your profits. At a casino you're betting you're on the right side of the bet, wether its blackjack, poker, or roulette. If you don't think you gamble when you trade, you're seriously delusional.

 

[JSSPMK]

If it's gambling, then it means you don't know what the heck you are doing. Stop right now!

Quote from SCI new york:

Trading is gambling, no matter what moronic logic you try and use to dispute that fact. If you don't think so, you're in denial. Market speculation is exactly that, speculation. There is no guarantee in trading/markets/gambling. You try to have the most/best edges you can but that doesnt change the fact that you're betting. On a trade you're betting you're on the correct side of the trade to increase your profits. At a casino you're betting you're on the right side of the bet, wether its blackjack, poker, or roulette. If you don't think you gamble when you trade, you're seriously delusional.

 

[frozzor]

sounds like someone who thinks they know everything but will eventually blow up their account one day. you can't account for everything, that's why it is gambling. you could make the best trades in the world, but there's always a chance they will fail.

Quote from JSSPMK:

If it's gambling, then it means you don't know what the heck you are doing. Stop right now!

 

[Redneck]

Being the relative new kid on the block – I’m probably shooting myself in the foot by saying this….



But I’m getting a kick out of reading this thread…



I just hope y’all don’t argue with the market – and/ or – try to convince the market to change its mind – as much as y’all are here


That would be highly – un-profitable – I believe


Anyway

Happy Weekend All

Redneck

 

[Jachyra]

Quote from SCI new york:

Trading is gambling, no matter what moronic logic you try and use to dispute that fact. If you don't think so, you're in denial. Market speculation is exactly that, speculation. There is no guarantee in trading/markets/gambling. You try to have the most/best edges you can but that doesnt change the fact that you're betting. On a trade you're betting you're on the correct side of the trade to increase your profits. At a casino you're betting you're on the right side of the bet, wether its blackjack, poker, or roulette. If you don't think you gamble when you trade, you're seriously delusional.

Well you've clearly demonstrated that you don't understand the meaning of the word gambling... you seem to think the word "gambling" is somehow synonymous with the word "speculation"... if your assertion is that any business transaction where its possible to lose some or all of your money in that transaction is considered gambling, then under the same definition purchasing real estate must also be considered gambling... or any business deal or transaction where 100% return of your principle is not guaranteed, is also considered gambling. As a matter of fact, under your definition the only way NOT to gamble would be to just stick your money in the bank and never purchase any assets in any capital markets.

I find it completely baffling that there are so many people out there who not only think trading is gambling, but also continue to trade despite their convictions. I know that if I were convinced that it was gambling I would cease it immediately and go find something where I could actually grind out a small edge over a very long period of time. If you accept the fact that you are gambling, then that means you've accepted that fact that you must rely on getting lucky in order to succeed. Its completely non-sensical to try to make a career out of consistently getting lucky, since by definition getting lucky implies that you must overcome the laws of averages in order to succeed.

I doubt too many people would think of a trader who has been able to make money for 10 or 20+ years simply as lucky. If you're able to make money in the markets for that long of a period of time, I think most people would be inclined to consider it skill.

But I can say one thing with absolute certainty. It is possible to gamble on almost anything including the markets, real estate, business, sports, etc... So anyone who believes that they're gambling when they trade... I think most likely they really are... and to be honest, I'm incredibly happy that those people are out there in the world.