Do you tend to wait for counter trend movements to enter a position?

[zghorner]

Do your stats

What's the dif in your lingo between "retracements" and "counter trend movements"? (Do you tend to wait for counter trend movements to enter a position?)
What timeframe charts are you trading?

daily candles. No difference between retracement and counter trend movement as IMO both mean a move in the opposite direction of the prevailing trend.

I think I need to change my entry points...I think my current method would work better with a more loose stop but I am not comfortable with that. I am liking the idea of entering on a retracement with a tighter stop. Not sure yet, this thread has given me some ideas to test though.

 

[easymon1]

daily candles. No difference between retracement and counter trend movement as IMO both mean a move in the opposite direction of the prevailing trend.

I think I need to change my entry points...I think my current method would work better with a more loose stop but I am not comfortable with that. I am liking the idea of entering on a retracement with a tighter stop. Not sure yet, this thread has given me some ideas to test though.

Daily's, thanks.

OP: Do you tend to wait for counter trend movements to enter a position?

The reason I was asking you about the dif in your eyes between "retracements" and "counter trend movements" was to help me parse out your sentence:

"Im afraid we just aren't really on the same page. In my OP i'm not talking about retracements to support or resistance."

Ok, so we are on the same page so far retracements = countertrend movements. Agreed.
Ok, let's parse this out,
Part 1:
Im afraid we just aren't really on the same page.

Part 2:
In my OP i'm not talking about retracements
(retracements = countertrend movements)

Part 3:
to support or resistance

Given your response above we agree,
"No difference between retracement and counter trend movement"
... then the only words left are these: "to support or resistance"

Get me on your same page about this difference - How do these three words "support or resistance" take us off of the same page?

What makes you say this?
"Im afraid we just aren't really on the same page."

 

[zghorner]

Daily's, thanks.

OP: Do you tend to wait for counter trend movements to enter a position?

The reason I was asking you about the dif in your eyes between "retracements" and "counter trend movements" was to help me parse out your sentence:

"Im afraid we just aren't really on the same page. In my OP i'm not talking about retracements to support or resistance."

Ok, so we are on the same page so far retracements = countertrend movements. Agreed.
Ok, let's parse this out,
Part 1:
Im afraid we just aren't really on the same page.

Part 2:
In my OP i'm not talking about retracements
(retracements = countertrend movements)

Part 3:
to support or resistance

Given your response above we agree,
"No difference between retracement and counter trend movement"
... then the only words left are these: "to support or resistance"

Get me on your same page about this difference - How do these three words "support or resistance" take us off of the same page?

What makes you say this?
"Im afraid we just aren't really on the same page."

The support and resistance confusion comes from the chart of yours I posted...where support was found and a reversal occurred and the only reason I mentioned it. But I also could have added the word "major" so it read "major support or resistance". Meaning...I am just talking about small countertrend moves...not major retracements that contacts support/resistance areas.

So once and for all, these are the points I am talking about lol. How to determine at which point to enter will need some testing...I am thinking a simple ratio test red:green days isn't a bad place to start.

 

[SunTrader]

The support and resistance confusion comes from the chart of yours I posted...where support was found and a reversal occurred and the only reason I mentioned it. But I also could have added the word "major" so it read "major support or resistance". Meaning...I am just talking about small countertrend moves...not major retracements that contacts support/resistance areas.

So once and for all, these are the points I am talking about lol. How to determine at which point to enter will need some testing...I am thinking a simple ratio test red:green days isn't a bad place to start.

I can see (now that I know which market you are looking at) that my suggestion of Gann 3 day pullback entry wouldn't trigger anything to speak of for Sept Wheat so I added Inside Day (yellow dot on low) and Outside Day (magenta dot on high) ShowMe's to attached chart.

One Outside potential winner, two Inside winners was the result along with one still in play but undetermined status. Also another Outside bar that was against the downtrend so it wouldn't be taken and one up at the very top before downtrend was in place.

 

[zghorner]

I can see (now that I know which market you are looking at) that my suggestion of Gann 3 day pullback entry wouldn't trigger anything to speak of for Sept Wheat so I added Inside Day (yellow dot on low) and Outside Day (magenta dot on high) ShowMe's to attached chart.

One Outside potential winner, two Inside winners was the result along with one still in play but undetermined status. Also another Outside bar that was against the downtrend so it wouldn't be taken and one up at the very top before downtrend was in place.
View attachment 290932

ive done a little research on WD Gann in the past...I remember his books being sort of rare and expensive so I didn't buy any lol. Ill check it out some more, thank you.

 

[zghorner]

So you identify 3 entries in that chart?

They are just examples of the small moves I am talking about.

 

[SunTrader]

ive done a little research on WD Gann in the past...I remember his books being sort of rare and expensive so I didn't buy any lol. Ill check it out some more, thank you.

I wouldn't spend any good money on books specifically to do with Gann. There is a crap load of stuff free on the net.

 

[easymon1]

They are just examples of the small moves I am talking about.

Your arrows may match up to some of these circled returns to s / r.
No dates on your chart and the candles are vertically challenged, lol.

Do you see any entries at return to suport or resistance on this daily zw chart?
Even if you wait for conformation candles, you have plenty of time to get on the train.
Can you name any of them?
Are they subtle?

 

[easymon1]

but my question would then be: is counter trend movement part of your system trigger?

When you are 'searching for your subtle' - (a change or distinction) so delicate or precise as to be difficult to analyse or describe, you could simplify your existence by downshifting to a higher resolution chart, say from a daily to a 60 minute, and then look for the simple and obvious, lol. Why make life harder than it needs to be?

See any entry signals here? What are the odds that you will do stats on a mere dozen of these and try to rule them out. I figure the odds are 5 in a hundred that you lift a finger to write your entry trigger rules down and follow them, grab a spreadsheet, and go dig up a dozen of these and record some essentials.
If you can't disprove it with a dozen, go get 88 more and if you still can't disprove it, then what's that tell ya?

5 in a hundred.
Prove me wrong, zg.

If you indeed want to answer your query: "but my question would then be: is counter trend movement part of your system trigger?"
...then that's the way You can answer your question baby.

Everything else is just chin music in text.

 

[zghorner]

When you are 'searching for your subtle' - (a change or distinction) so delicate or precise as to be difficult to analyse or describe, you could simplify your existence by downshifting to a higher resolution chart, say from a daily to a 60 minute, and then look for the simple and obvious, lol. Why make life harder than it needs to be?

See any entry signals here? What are the odds that you will do stats on a mere dozen of these and try to rule them out. I figure the odds are 5 in a hundred that you lift a finger to write your entry trigger down and follow it to grab a spreadsheet and go dig up a dozen of these and record some essentials.
If you can't disprove it with a dozen, go get 88 more and if you still can't disprove it, then what's that tell ya?

5 in a hundred.
Prove me wrong, zg.

View attachment 290943

it would be simple and obvious to say 1 out of 20 instead of 5 out of 100 lol...common denominator and all that ya know? Thanks for your input.