Do you pay Health Insurance out of your profits?

Quote from bobcathy1:

I am having a terrible time getting health insurance in Florida....my premium just went up to $1200 a month for just me and they are going to cancel it anyway because I am moving and closing the business it is written on. I am going to look into the site someone listed on this thread. Celtic, Golden Rule and Blue Cross turned me down......pre-existing conditions.
Another site to check out is www.ehealthinsurance.com

I thought there was a health insurance portability law where if you already have health insurance, another carrier can't deny you coverage (even for pre-existing conditions) as long as there is not a gap in coverage of more than 60 days. The law was passed a few years ago so that people wouldn't have to stay at a job they didn't like for fear of being denied health insurance at their new employer due to a pre-existing condition. When I switched insurance companies, the new company wanted proof of prior health insurance (which my old insurance company did provide to me in the form of a certificate) before they would pay a claim.
 
where you are paying less than $100 per month
to Empire Blue Cross for health insurance?

they are raising their single coverage in NYC to over $400 per month for me later in the yr :(
 
Quote from GreenTraderTax:

Most traders can't deduct their health insurance premiums from Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) and that makes it even more expensive on an after-tax-basis.

On the other hand, most self employed businesses can deduct health insurance premiums from AGI, so traders are at a disadvantage.

For 2003 taxes, if you have "earned income" from self employment activities (or through pass through partnerships or LLCs), you can deduct 100% of your health insurance premiums from AGI (up from 70% in 2002).

Trading gains, with or without IRC 475 MTM (mark to market accounting), as a sole proprietor business trader or a LLC trader, are not "earned income." The good news is that trading gains are therefore exempt from self employment taxes (SE - 15.3% of the first $85,000 and 2.9% thereafter). The bad news is that without earned income, you can't deduct the AGI deductions including health insurance premiums and retirement plan contributions.

Note - if you can't deduct health insurance premiums as AGI deductions, you still can deduct them as medical expenses - itemized deductions on Schedule A. Most taxpayers don't benefit because medical expenses are only deductible if in excess of 7.5% of your AGI and if your itemized deductions are greater then the standard deduction.

There is a solution. You can form an entity like a trading company LLC or partnership and pay yourself a fee or guaranteed payment. The fee or guaranteed payment is "earned income" and subject to SE tax and you can deduct health insurance and retirement plans from the earned income amount.

Wage income reported on W-2s is earned, but its not technically "earned income" for purposes of these deductions.

If your marginal tax rates are well over 15% (the maximum federal is 35% plus you have a state rate as well), you will make money on this structuring. You pay "good" SE taxes at 15.3% and save "bad" income taxes at rates well over 15%. SE taxes are better then income taxes because they generate your social security benefits and Medicare insurance benefits in retirement. If you think your health insurance costs are expensive now, wait until you retire; they will be much higher. It's wise to fund your Medicare taxes now with the above suggest solution and entity structure.

Setting up an entity costs under $500 in most states.

We explain more about entities and our hot Mini 401k plan strategy on our home page. See the Spotlight section.

For another health insurance provider, check out golden rule; they have great low rates for individuals.

Health insurance is important, very costly and a real pain. But you need it. Just make sure you can deduct it on your taxes, which can reduce the cost by 40%.

Take care,
Robert Green, CPA
GreenTraderTax.com

Robert, Thank you very much for sharing this information.

I find myself in a position where I may benefit from your advice. I trade for a living and purchase health insurance for my wife and I at around $900 per month.

I have this question: To benefit from the LLC or other entity as you suggest, does the trading account need to be in the entity's name or may it remain as a joint account with my wife?

This is a probably dumb question, but I believe in the old saying, "there are no dumb questions, just inquisitive idiots."

Robert
 
Quote from vulture:



BlueCross BlueShield


Vulture, Your employer must be kicking in an extra grand per month. No way in He__ are you paying so low for health insurance. If I'm wrong please clarify because I will switch.

I went from Blue Care when they kept doubling my monthly every year, last I checked they wanted over $800/month, probably more now.

I checked ehealthinsurance and ended up with Golden Rule at about $175/month for me and my wife (2). There is a 3k deductible the rest is 100%. Best I found back then, but there might be better now. If anyone knows of a better price, please post.

Canada's plan is best, IMO.
 
Quote from GapTrader:



I thought there was a health insurance portability law where if you already have health insurance, another carrier can't deny you coverage (even for pre-existing conditions) as long as there is not a gap in coverage of more than 60 days. The law was passed a few years ago so that people wouldn't have to stay at a job they didn't like for fear of being denied health insurance at their new employer due to a pre-existing condition. When I switched insurance companies, the new company wanted proof of prior health insurance (which my old insurance company did provide to me in the form of a certificate) before they would pay a claim.

I am entitled to COBRA for one year only. I will start another small business where I am moving and get new insurance during open enrollment in August 2004. Florida has this guaranteed issue for small businesses of 2 employees even if only one person wants the health insurance coverage. It is my only way to go.
 
I was told the way to go is set up a corporation, which I did, and channel your income through the corp and pay all your medical expenses through it. This allows you to deduct 100% of your expenses from profits as opposed to the limits placed on individuals. Works for me.
 
Quote from GreenTraderTax:

Most traders can't deduct their health insurance premiums from Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) and that makes it even more expensive on an after-tax-basis.

On the other hand, most self employed businesses can deduct health insurance premiums from AGI, so traders are at a disadvantage.

For 2003 taxes, if you have "earned income" from self employment activities (or through pass through partnerships or LLCs), you can deduct 100% of your health insurance premiums from AGI (up from 70% in 2002).

Trading gains, with or without IRC 475 MTM (mark to market accounting), as a sole proprietor business trader or a LLC trader, are not "earned income." The good news is that trading gains are therefore exempt from self employment taxes (SE - 15.3% of the first $85,000 and 2.9% thereafter). The bad news is that without earned income, you can't deduct the AGI deductions including health insurance premiums and retirement plan contributions.

Note - if you can't deduct health insurance premiums as AGI deductions, you still can deduct them as medical expenses - itemized deductions on Schedule A. Most taxpayers don't benefit because medical expenses are only deductible if in excess of 7.5% of your AGI and if your itemized deductions are greater then the standard deduction.

There is a solution. You can form an entity like a trading company LLC or partnership and pay yourself a fee or guaranteed payment. The fee or guaranteed payment is "earned income" and subject to SE tax and you can deduct health insurance and retirement plans from the earned income amount.

Wage income reported on W-2s is earned, but its not technically "earned income" for purposes of these deductions.

If your marginal tax rates are well over 15% (the maximum federal is 35% plus you have a state rate as well), you will make money on this structuring. You pay "good" SE taxes at 15.3% and save "bad" income taxes at rates well over 15%. SE taxes are better then income taxes because they generate your social security benefits and Medicare insurance benefits in retirement. If you think your health insurance costs are expensive now, wait until you retire; they will be much higher. It's wise to fund your Medicare taxes now with the above suggest solution and entity structure.

Setting up an entity costs under $500 in most states.

We explain more about entities and our hot Mini 401k plan strategy on our home page. See the Spotlight section.

For another health insurance provider, check out golden rule; they have great low rates for individuals.

Health insurance is important, very costly and a real pain. But you need it. Just make sure you can deduct it on your taxes, which can reduce the cost by 40%.

Take care,
Robert Green, CPA
GreenTraderTax.com

Thanks for this piece of advice. However, I am confused regarding taxation of LLC income. As I understand it (I hereby claim I am not an expert) is that it essentially drops to your 1040 unless you pay yourself wages as you suggest to facilitate tax advantaged items such as deducting medical insurance cost, and setting up the mini 401K.

In looking around the WEB for info, I came across this posted on QUICKEN's site, and they attribute it to

"Legal Guide for Starting and Running a Small Business" by Fred S. Steingold

Start quote:


For an S corporation, the rules on the self-employment tax are well established: as an S corporation shareholder, you pay the self-employment tax on money you receive as compensation for services—but not on profits that automatically pass through to you as a shareholder. For example, if your total share of S corporation income is $100,000 in 2000 and you perform services for the corporation reasonably worth $65,000, you will be taxed 15.3% on the $65,000 but not on the remaining $35,000.


By contrast, the rules for members of an LLC are murky. Proposed IRS regulations (which Congress has placed on hold) would impose the self-employment tax on your entire share of LLC profits in any of the following situations:


You participate in the business for more than 500 hours during the LLC’s tax year.

You work in an LLC that provides professional services in the fields of health, law, engineering, architecture, accounting, actuarial science or consulting (no matter how many hours you work).

You’re empowered to sign contracts on behalf of your LLC.

Until the IRS clarifies the rules on self-employment tax for members of an LLC, you should assume that 100% of an LLC member’s earnings will be subject to the self-employment tax. Thus, using the figures in the above example, you should assume that the full $100,000 of your business’s income will be subject to the self-employment tax (although the amount above the current year’s Social Security tax cut-off figure—$76,200 in 2000—will be subject only to the Medicare tax).


The point is that for now—and until the tax rules are clarified—an S corporation shareholder may pay less self-employment tax than an LLC member with similar income. You’ll need to decide if this potential tax saving is enough to offset such LLC advantages as flexibility in management structure and in distributing profits and losses.

End Quote.

This suggests to me all earnings are subject to the self employment tax and seems to contradict your point. I would appreciate it if you would clarify. I'm guessing I may be misreading the above quote.

Thanks,
DS
 
Quote from listedguru:

Anyone here pay for insurance in the great state of Michigan? Any one care to name names and prices??

-ListedGuru

I am in the Detroit area and happen to be an attorney so I use the State Bar group thing for blue cross - I am paying not quite 400 a month for bc/bs traditional, 1000 annual deductible w/ co-pays and 50% prescriptions covered. single, no kids, no employees. From the little bit of legwork I've done on this issue, you may be able to join a local chamber of commerce, or even the greater Detroit chamber of commerce and get their blue cross group thing. Keep in mind however, that a local chamber group thing may not allow single member (no employee) coverage. I am almost positive that the greater detroit chamber does allow single (no employee) sole proprietors coverage under their group and the membership is (I THINK) over 300/annually. Further, I have also incorporated ( c corp, but not related to lawyering) and that is the entity actually paying the premiums and I pay the corporation for bookeeping/tax and other services.

christine
 
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