Do you do enough better than a money manager?

[Butterball]

Quote from MAESTRO:

There are lots of good money managers that can get you 20% ++ a year with pretty smooth equity curve.

Nonsense. In fact 99.99% of all money managers won't achieve that, not even close to that over long horizons (20+ years).

8% annualized after fees over the risk-free rate puts your squarely in the top 1% of all professional money managers, regardless of their investing or trading style. With rates close to zero your 20% figure looks quite delusional.

 

[pikachu9]

Quote from Butterball:

Nonsense. In fact 99.99% of all money managers won't achieve that, not even close to that over long horizons (20+ years).

8% annualized after fees over the risk-free rate puts your squarely in the top 1% of all professional money managers, regardless of their investing or trading style. With rates close to zero your 20% figure looks quite delusional.

The best money managers with 30 plus years under their belt average around 13 - 15% annual returns.

 

[Handle123]

I think cause many money management teams charge 3-6% management fees, they are not going to risk much and not be able to make much. I often think they want to just be able to cover these fees.

Long term trading makes it very hard to make 20% year in year out, it is usually one out of three years where one can make 30-60% and the other two years fighting to not take a loss. I know of no one money manager in my 35 years that has had 20% year in and year out for long duration.

 

[toolazy]

Quote from pikachu9:

The best money managers with 30 plus years under their belt average around 13 - 15% annual returns.

that is true however, all of them seem to have good period, typically with small FUM, and after that return even below index for many years. Average still looks okay. Looks like too large funds are unmanegable, waste of time and attract all sorts of activity that decreases return . Probably these guys burn out as well. 10 years of good returns, thats it.

Only lazy ones can last longer

 

[cornix]

Quote from toolazy:

BS. To do good for yourself enter on doom and exit on eufory. Just buy bunch of stocks across the board. I have improved my return over 7 years around 50 % vs buy and hold. And in total two roundtrips between stocks and cash. There is no work required really.

If you can consistently time proper entries/exits into/out of doom/euphory it already makes you very good speculator. So no contradiction with OP's statement.

 

[toolazy]

Quote from cornix:

If you can consistently time proper entries/exits into/out of doom/euphory it already makes you very good speculator. So no contradiction with OP's statement.

Ok, you right. I argue with 5% number !

Fund managers take fees, 3%+, this is legally, and where is lots of money, there is a bit of corruption, so i estimate TRUE fees really around 5% PA.

Giving them money, haha, good luck to matching SPY return.

Better idea to play doom/eufory scenario and expect 5% outperformance vs SPY. You need couple of cycles though to get boom/bust recognition right.

 

[cornix]

Quote from toolazy:

Ok, you right. I argue with 5% number !

Fund managers take fees, 3%+, this is legally, and where is lots of money, there is a bit of corruption, so i estimate TRUE fees really around 5% PA.

Giving them money, haha, good luck to matching SPY return.

Better idea to play doom/eufory scenario and expect 5% outperformance vs SPY. You need couple of cycles though to get boom/bust recognition right.

Well, guess not all money managers are equal. Almost sure you're right about many, but not all.

 

[intervention]

If I can do better than a money manager then I would also be a money manager but a better one. With low fees and my main point would be to make my clients more and more profits.

 

[toolazy]

Quote from intervention:

If I can do better than a money manager then I would also be a money manager but a better one. With low fees and my main point would be to make my clients more and more profits.

keep dreaming. fund managers are not there because of their quality but because of connections. They are usually not bright either and sure not good speculators.

Things are changing fast as internet offers high quality/value alternatives where really anyone taht can demonstrate skill will be able to manage via trade duplication, etc.

 

[Pipflow]

I am able to make more than 50% profits each month and i feel yes am better than any other money managers to trust so i trade for myself after some bad experiences with other money managers.