Do you "bid whack"?

[sccz97]

Quote from Scraff:
I realize this. I specifically mentioned that it's when I try to sell at a price higher than the bid (what some complain about and call "bid whacking" that I'm not usually successful and may get a partial order filled and have to enter another.

I know this is where I am having trouble understanding what you're saying. In the link that you posted, it correctly explained that bid whacking was selling at a price that lowers the bid. It doesnt matter if it's a market or limit order. If there are 100 shares in the highest bid and you send a market order to sell 200 or a limit order to sell 200 at a price <= highest bid, you're going to have the same effect.

Unless I'm understanding your comment above incorrectly, you're saying that you're bid whacking when you're trying to sell above the bid. If you're selling higher than the market wants to buy, what makes you think you should be able to get your entire order filled?

 

[Scraff]

Quote from sccz97:

I know this is where I am having trouble understanding what you're saying....

Unless I'm understanding your comment above incorrectly, you're saying that you're bid whacking when you're trying to sell above the bid. If you're selling higher than the market wants to buy, what makes you think you should be able to get your entire order filled?

Yes, I screwed up in my last post again. I should have wrote:

I realize this. I specifically mentioned that it's when I try to sell at a price higher than the bid that I'm not usually successful and may get a partial order filled and have to enter another.

I know, my fault. However, hajimow and hughb's first posts say I've contradicted myself. I haven't. It wasn't until post #6 that I mistakenly wrote one word for another.

Then there's MohdSalleh's post. What is he talking about?

 

[sccz97]

Quote from Scraff:

Yes, I screwed up in my last post again. I should have wrote:



I know, my fault. However, hajimow and hughb's first posts say I've contradicted myself. I haven't. It wasn't until post #6 that I mistakenly wrote one word for another.

Then there's MohdSalleh's post. What is he talking about?

hmm, with the numerous mistakes in your posts you can see how noone is posting satisfactory answers to your question. In fact, I'm still unsure as to what you want to know.

and with respect to MohdSalleh's post, if you want to sell the bid or buy the offer, it's called hitting the bid and lifting the offer.

 

[Scraff]

Quote from sccz97:

hmm, with the numerous mistakes in your posts you can see how noone is posting satisfactory answers to your question.

No, I don't. You are the only one to respond since my second mistake. My first was a one word mistake which I promptly fixed. Two people said Iwas contradicting myself based on my OP alone which contains no mistakes and no contradictions. Read hajimow's last post to me again and tell me that's my fault.

In fact, I'm still unsure as to what you want to know.

I wanted to discuss if bid whacking is something to be looked down upon or if it's unreasonable to expect anything else from those wanting to sell their shares of stock, but it's turned into a thread about my definitions and me having to defend myself.

 

[hajimow]

Quote from Scraff:

http://myforexbrokers.net/do_you_know_what_%22bid_whacker%22_is%3F.htm

I've made a few hundred stock trades and I find it almost impossible to get someone to buy my shares above the bid. When it does happen, it's not for all the shares and then I have to modify the order to sell the rest, paying double in commissions. Are you a bid whacker? Do you want to beat bid whackers with a stick?

Scarf:

Now I think that I know what was your question and if I am right this time, I should say you are right and you were not contradicting yourself in your question but your question looked very basic. Here is what you asked and then I will respond . Lets again assume that the bid and ask for a stock is 1.50 and 1.51 and bid and ask size are 10 which means 1000 shares. And lets assume that you are trying to buy 200 shares at 1.50 which is the bid price. There might be some hidden orders at 1.505 which you might not see but they are there and mostly they are from MMs that compete with each other. So lets assume that I want to sell 2000 shares at the market or even at the bid. Some of my shares might be sold at 15.05 and some at 1.5 and if I am selling at market, some might get it at 1.48 or something like that. So you see that in this case, you thought the highest bid was 1.50 but there were some hidden orders ahead of you at 1.5.05. In this case, you will never get your shares at anything over 1.50 but for me that I wanted to sell and I would be happy to sell my shares at 1.5, some of my shares were sold at 1.505 which is higher than I asked. So something I use this when I see the bid and ask are 1.5/1.51 and I want to sell my shares at 1.50, I put a market order instead of limit order which gives me better fill. This is true specially when a stock has higher gap between bid and ask like 5 or 10 cents. Let me know if my response was helpful or not.

 

[hajimow]

Quote from hajimow:

Scarf:

Now I think that I know what was your question and if I am right this time, I should say you are right and you were not contradicting yourself in your question but your question looked very basic. Here is what you asked and then I will respond . Lets again assume that the bid and ask for a stock is 1.50 and 1.51 and bid and ask size are 10 which means 1000 shares. And lets assume that you are trying to buy 200 shares at 1.50 which is the bid price. There might be some hidden orders at 1.505 which you might not see but they are there and mostly they are from MMs that compete with each other. So lets assume that I want to sell 2000 shares at the market or even at the bid. Some of my shares might be sold at 15.05 and some at 1.5 and if I am selling at market, some might get it at 1.48 or something like that. So you see that in this case, you thought the highest bid was 1.50 but there were some hidden orders ahead of you at 1.5.05. In this case, you will never get your shares at anything over 1.50 but for me that I wanted to sell and I would be happy to sell my shares at 1.5, some of my shares were sold at 1.505 which is higher than I asked. So something I use this when I see the bid and ask are 1.5/1.51 and I want to sell my shares at 1.50, I put a market order instead of limit order which gives me better fill. This is true specially when a stock has higher gap between bid and ask like 5 or 10 cents. Let me know if my response was helpful or not.

Scarf;

Sorry. I re-read your first post. Again I think you are contradicting youself!! A bid whaker is a "seller" and based on your first post you are also "selling" at the ask price so bid whacker is a kind of fighting (in competition) with you. But let me know whether my previous response answered your question.

 

[hajimow]

Scarf,

OK this will be my last response to you. I am all thinking about your question and trying to find a clear response. Now after my last email that I said you are contradicting yourself I believe again that you are not but confused. Here is my last response.
In a situation when bid/ask is 1.50/151 and a did whacker wants to sell his shares at 1.50, he might get some shares sold at say 1.505 some at l.50 and some maybe lower if his order is market. He will never be able to sell any of his shares above 1.51. In your case when you selling your shares at 1.51, you are not a bid whacker and you are called a greedy seller who wants to sell at ask price and as you said you will never sell your shares above 1.51 and as you said you might get a partial fill and then if you get nervous and concered, you might reduce your order to lower your price. So the conclusion is:
A bid whacker is a seller who bails out his shares at bid price and you as a seller are a greedy seller that you want to sell at ask.

 

[sprstpd]

Quote from hajimow:

did whacker

What's a did whacker - I thought we were talking about whacking some bids!?!? Confused

 

[donnap]

:eek:

 

[hajimow]

Quote from sprstpd:

What's a did whacker - I thought we were talking about whacking some bids!?!? Confused

I am impressed that you read my posts carefully.