Do We Need Indicators?

I use an oscillator as a filter for my price action signals as well as MA's to define geography and further filter signals across time frames. I know traders who do quite well with simply price action. Others, Ken Woody Wood for example espouses using the CCI as the signal itself, which seems to me akin to driving a car using just mirrors, but it's not for me to say what works or doesn't work for someone else. Bottom line...it's a question you have to answer for yourself, we all see thing differently.
 
Indicators just show you information that the naked eye cannot see/process otherwise.

In that sense, they are extremely useful, i could never trade without my indicators.

Said this, there are a lot of indicators, and most of them are useless and counterproductive.
 
$bpnya, $nya50r, $nya200r, NYSE A-D line, NYSE TICK, AAII investor survey and market profile.

Basically I am just trying to put the market into context and form a narrative.
 
BOC said:
Do We Need Indicators? Or does price already show us everything we need to know?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/143105519/Indicator%202....

On this chart: Keltner bands, Wave Volume, Volume, MACD.

Consider price structure and MACD A to B. Looking at price, at A there is a breakdown from a top consolidation, a H&S, then from A to B a nice, steady downtrend. Drilling in on the MACD, from A to C it is sharply down to significant lows, confirmation; from C to D MACD remains below the 0-line but is mostly flat, divergence. Now, considering price, we can see the same momentum structure from which the MACD is calculated: From A to C there are much wider spreads down overall than from C to D and A/C goes much deeper in the channel (trend) than does C/D, a more shallow swing that stays in the upper-channel on those narrow spreads. MACD is, here, in a sense, redundant.

From D to B, another nice price downswing, MACD remains pretty much flat with a very slight downward bias, a divergence. Which can also be seen clearly in the price action: From D and at E are deep reactions (in context) up, affecting downward momentum; then at B a wide spread with a long lower tail closing nearer the high. Note again here how the downtrend stays in the upper-half of the channel from C-ish to B.

But I still like MACD on this setting, because it shows me an overall glimpse of what price is doing piece-by-piece. In a sense, it's redundant, but from another perspective, it shows the obvious more obviously.

Now consider Wave Volume. C/D we see high, possibly climatic swing volume, however note, again, the relatively narrow spreads. There is no climatic price action, bar-wise. But, interestingly, D/B there is higher individual volume while wave volume declines. So I think Wave Volume is unique and useful as an indicator, at least vs individual volume. Price does indeed move in waves and this indicator may show us something about the force of the move that may be not evident in price action or corresponding bar volume.

Keltner Bands. Looking at the A/B downtrend consider the bands vs the drawn channel, which is initially drawn A/F/G. Note how accurate the channel is, with price staying (almost every close) in the parallel upper-channel from G-ish to the breakout following B, that low at major long-term S/R (purple line) and the close sitting on that mid-line. The trend channel shows strength in the weakness of the downtrend. Conversely, the Keltner Band shows another scenario - weakness in the weakness - as price rides the lower half of the band with resistance at the middle MA, confirming the downtrend. B springs the outer-band.

So I think the Keltner Bands may be useful as they give a perspective that may not show up through drawn channels alone. (Possibly this is simply because it's a longer timeframe?) I'm not sure yet.
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Depends where you are in trading development spectrum. A new trader will find indicators useful as they provide structure, whereas an experienced trader has already developed processes and intuition thus do not need them.
 
BOC said:
Do We Need Indicators? Or does price already show us everything we need to know?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/143105519/Indicator%202....

On this chart: Keltner bands, Wave Volume, Volume, MACD.
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Short answer is no, they are not needed to be successful. Longer answer is they may be needed by those who require an assist in reading the market and are having trouble with using just price and volume.

Using indicators can be compared to using direction technology like a compass or GPS vs an Indian Guide who has a deep experience and intuitively knows geographic location and direction. Indicators can prove useful to those with little experience/skills compared to just wondering in the woods in a clueless state.

The key thing to remember is that using indicators comes at the cost of edge via delay in determining what the market is doing compared to the person who is skilled enough to see/understand the move without indicators. Using the technology vs Indian Guide analogy- it's akin to the time it takes to for the compass to change direction or GPS to send you new coordinates compared to the Indian Guide who gets the info directly by intuitive experience.

You also have a more crowded field of competition with folks using the same or similar indicators.

The long term goal would be to get proficient enough so that one doesn't need to use indicators.
 
Xela said:
I know perfectly well what the word "tangible" means, and you knew that: you've just chosen to pretend to misunderstand what I said for the sake of being patronising and pompous about it. :rolleyes:
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Ok tangible in my case means something measured which either alone or in tandem gives a pattern probability that has a positive rules based expectancy and is actionable .. Not the overbought oversold or diverency BS that dominates popular TA indicators

Divergence is so unreliable its actually a positive continuation pattern
 
I am like look on candlestick pattern without indicator and using crosshail to look on price peak and bottom as trigger analysis, I like with simple analysis because and use stop loss taking profit at least 1:1
 
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