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Do we have to pay income tax?
- Thread starter Daxtrader
- Start date
"The federal government canât tax 'free sovereign citizens.' "
This argument is somewhat incomprehensible. It posits that people who are born and live in the United States are somehow not citizens of it, but have some sort of free-floating âsovereigntyâ that protects them from any government action they donât like.
The short answer to this argument is found in the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which provides that â[a]ll persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.â This constitutional provision shows that most Americans have two citizenships: each American is a citizen of the state wherein he or she resides and also a citizen of the United States. The fact that you may be a citizen of Texas or Montana, for example, does not prevent you from also being a citizen of the United States.
This argument is somewhat incomprehensible. It posits that people who are born and live in the United States are somehow not citizens of it, but have some sort of free-floating âsovereigntyâ that protects them from any government action they donât like.
The short answer to this argument is found in the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which provides that â[a]ll persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.â This constitutional provision shows that most Americans have two citizenships: each American is a citizen of the state wherein he or she resides and also a citizen of the United States. The fact that you may be a citizen of Texas or Montana, for example, does not prevent you from also being a citizen of the United States.
Quote from ratboy88:
bottomline... he is a waste of time.
Damn right he is.
And teriyaki, most of the drivel you keep posting has been addressed in the videos. I could easily point out how the videos refute every goddamn thing you have posted so far but why should I ? Just watch the videos yourself first then decide what you should copy/paste.
Quote from Daxtrader:
Damn right he is.
And teriyaki, most of the drivel you keep posting has been addressed in the videos. I could easily point out how the videos refute every goddamn thing you have posted so far but why should I ? Just watch the videos yourself first then decide what you should copy/paste.
Every video is full of lies. This has been proven in court. I have given examples. A good rebuttal to what I post would be court cases that back your claims.
That's why I copy/paste - to type a rebuttal for every single one would take forever.
If you CHOOSE to believe they're truthful, then good for you. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go ahead and don't pay your taxes then...
Like I said, I'm really not trying to convince YOU otherwise.
Quote from Haroki:
This is the basic technique of maintaining that something is true/not true despite all evidence to the contrary. It is usually encapsulated in slick slogans that can be mindlessly repeated until they take on the characteristics of some fundamental "truth". They are in fact, the kind of "big lie" that distorts reality and oozes its way into human consciousness effortlessly.
... aren't reality and truth defined by those in power ... they could be the majority or they could just be a minority with a specific capability ... for instance those who are smarter could convince the rest.
the cool thing i like about taxes is that it is obtained by circulation of money which is inevitable ...
say I get paid $50 an hour ... I pay $15 for taxes ... and with the $35 I buy a mouse pad at $33 and $2 tax... the store had bought the item for $2 (taxes have been payed on it's purchase) and so made $31 and has to pay $11 taxes ... now the seller has $20 ... anyhow in the end it almost reaches zero
Quote from Haroki:
The income tax portion of the code requires you to pay income tax by stating that every person who is required to file an income tax return âshall payâ the income tax. Thatâs in 26 U.S.C. § 6151, described in detail here.
yes.... so then you have to see who is required to pay... how much simpler can it be?
they even give you the answer... non resident aliens doing business in the U.S. or us citizens doing business with foreign corporations and/or possessions such as guam. thats it.. end of story.
whats funny is the connections in the statutes that made it easy to find magically disappeared in 1957 or 58 i think.... talk about blatant criminality. we know why they did it.... and we will find out exactly who did it. but bottomline.. these are facts.. and can not be debated. it is historically preserved.
Quote from Daxtrader:
Okay so you haven't watched anything. Get the fuck outta this thread. Fucking chink.
There are a wide variety of ways that psychological denial can be expressed by a person who is unconsciously defending or protecting themselves from unwanted knowledge, thoughts, or feelings. What follows is a partial list of denial strategies. Human ingenuity being what it is, I couldn't possibly list all the possible strategies.
"Affect Storm" or Exaggerated Emotional Responses
This is a hyperemotional response to anything that threatens the veneer of denial or that questions the motivations of the denier.
EXAMPLE: Take your pick among the usual ad hominem attacks leveled at anyone who has the audacity to disagree with the person in denial or to question his denial.
Quote from ratboy88:
yes.... so then you have to see who is required to pay... how much simpler can it be?
they even give you the answer... non resident aliens doing business in the U.S. or us citizens doing business with foreign corporations and/or possessions such as guam. thats it.. end of story.
Name a court case that backs your claim....
Quote from ratboy88:
whats funny is the connections in the statutes that made it easy to find magically disappeared in 1957 or 58 i think.... talk about blatant criminality. we know why they did it.... and we will find out exactly who did it. but bottomline.. these are facts.. and can not be debated. it is historically preserved.
There are a wide variety of ways that psychological denial can be expressed by a person who is unconsciously defending or protecting themselves from unwanted knowledge, thoughts, or feelings. What follows is a partial list of denial strategies. Human ingenuity being what it is, I couldn't possibly list all the possible strategies.
Evasion and Displacement
In this strategy, the fundamental or essential issue is ignored by focusing on a "red herring" issue that may be quite similar to the real problem; but strikingly misses the real point.
Simple Denial
The most obvious strategy is simple, or outright, denial. This is the basic technique of maintaining that something is true/not true despite all evidence to the contrary. It is usually encapsulated in slick slogans that can be mindlessly repeated until they take on the characteristics of some fundamental "truth". They are in fact, the kind of "big lie" that distorts reality and oozes its way into human consciousness effortlessly.
Quote from ratboy88:
yes.... so then you have to see who is required to pay... how much simpler can it be?
they even give you the answer... non resident aliens doing business in the U.S. or us citizens doing business with foreign corporations and/or possessions such as guam. thats it.. end of story.
And -
"Section 861 shows that the domestic income of U.S. citizens is not taxable."
This argument, which has achieved some notoriety, is mistaken. Section 861 of the tax code (plus some of the following sections and the attendant regulations) determines whether income is considered to be from a source within the United States or from a source outside the United States. But the rest of the tax code (especially sections 1, 61, and 63) shows that U.S. citizens are taxed on their income from all sources, whether from within or outside the United States. So anyone can use section 861 to determine whether their income is from foreign or domestic sources, but for most U.S. citizens, the source simply doesnât matter, because U.S. citizens are taxed on their income from all sources.
But to repeat, for a typical U.S. citizen, section 861 is irrelevant. Anyone can go ahead and use it to characterize their income as from U.S. sources or foreign sources, but, because U.S. citizens are taxed on all income from all sources, the characterization simply wonât matter for most U.S. citizens.
That's really all one needs to know, but readers who have seen this video or other material by one Larken Rose, a big proponent of the 861 argument, may want more detail.
Readers might also be interested to know that Mr. Rose served a substantial jail term following his conviction on tax charges. One might wish to consider this in deciding whether he is a trustworthy source of tax information.
Like other tax protestor arguments, the 861 argument has been to court many times and has a batting average of ZERO. Every court to consider the argument has rejected it.