Do vaccines cause autism?

It's strictly a value and probability judgement and the people who can't stand religion in public want to make those value judgements for everyone else on this issue.

A hundred people died in Japan over five years after the ban, and previous to the ban, there were thousands who made claims against the vaccine for menengitis and other ailmants. The problems with the vaccine were 2000 times higher than expected.

In essence, there is a very tiny chance of someone dying from measles, but there is a much more significant chance of adverse side effects from taking the vaccine. Some of those side effects are very serious. And if someone dies of one of the side effects, what is the death listed under? The measles vaccine? I doubt it very much. More likely the disease that killed them.

How about we make these value judgements for ourselves. Especially since gov't is as dishonest as hell.
 
There's the little known experiment the gov't did on the tuskeegee airmen all the way up until 1972, where the gov't purposefully let certain people's syphilis progress....... just to see what it would do to them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment

I know my only motive concerning vaccines is my own health. In my view it is ignorant and dangerous to society that people suppose the gov't cares only about health, and not politics, or that they care more for my health than i do.
 
The title of this thread is "Do vaccines cause autism?" The answer is obviously "No". One of the most significant scientific frauds was promoted by Andrew Wakefield in the U.K. He used faked data to assert that vaccines cause autism which led to a public health crisis as numerous people refused to get their children vaccinated. He should be prosecuted for his fabricated claims (and will most likely will be criminally prosecuted soon in the U.K.).

The situation with Wakefield's vaccination claim based on fabricated data bear a similarity to climate change alarmists using adjusted data to assert their twisted AGW claims. Both undermine the integrity of science, and make people distrust scientists as politically driven scientific claims drive poor public policy.

If this thread was about possible dangers of vaccines then detractors may have ground to put forward arguments. However the theory of vaccines to protect public health via widespread vaccination is strongly proven. The downside risks of vaccination side-effects if much less than the large scale deaths and illnesses that would be present in a non-vaccinated society. This is a fact proven by decades of evidence, not merely a theory.

Are there side-effects possible with vaccines? Certainly. Most are associated with manufacturing flaws in the production process. This is why most modern governments have compensation funds to aid the minuscule percentage of people who endure some type of side-effect. Most of the claims made to these funds are for very minor side-effects from people looking to score free cash however.

The bottom line - Widespread vaccination is necessary for a healthy society. The downsides are minimal. Those who do not want to get their children vaccinated are a threat to public health. The concept that some twisted people want to revert to a society where over 1/3 of the people die from diseases that can easily be vaccinated against is a display of complete ignorance.
 
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gwb-trading said:
However the theory of vaccines to protect public health via widespread vaccination is strongly proven. The downside risks of vaccination side-effects if much less than the large scale deaths and illnesses that would be present in a non-vaccinated society. This is a fact proven by decades of evidence, not merely a theory.
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You're just making stuff up and stating it as fact. Coincidentally, that's the same thing you're accusing Wakefield of. And it's the same thing the global warming con men do.

As the article on Japan showed, there was a very small increase in deaths after the ban, and there were a HUGE amount of serious side effects from the vaccine. Just the exact opposite of what you have just stated. That is why they banned it.
 
fhl said:
You're just making stuff up and stating it as fact. Coincidentally, that's the same thing you're accusing Wakefield of. And it's the same thing the global warming con men do.

As the article on Japan showed, there was a very small increase in deaths after the ban, and there were a HUGE amount of serious side effects from the vaccine. Just the exact opposite of what you have just stated. That is why they banned it.
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Andrew Wakefield is a complete fraud. As outlined in paper after paper. Wakefield is no different that the global warming alarmists. He created fraudulent data to manufacture false assertions.

The health reports from Japan demonstrate it has a measles death and illness rate over 5 times the surrounding Asian countries. There are numerous health reports from Japan showing the scourge from easily preventable disease has had a very negative effect on the country. The negative impact of Japan's failure to vaccinate are demonstrated in article, after article, after article. There was only a significant side effects involving one batch of MMR vaccine that came from China. Moral of the story: Don't buy your vaccines from China because they have limited quality control.
 
gwb-trading said:
Andrew Wakefield is a complete fraud. As outlined in paper after paper. Wakefield is no different that the global warming alarmists. He created fraudulent data to manufacture false assertions.

The health reports from Japan demonstrate it has a measles death and illness rate over 5 times the surrounding Asian countries. There are numerous health reports from Japan showing the scourge from easily preventable disease has had a very negative effect on the country. The negative impact of Japan's failure to vaccinate are demonstrated in article, after article, after article. There was only a significant side effects involving one batch of MMR vaccine that came from China. Moral of the story: Don't buy your vaccines from China because they have limited quality control.
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You are degenerating into the level of idiocy. You're saying that you've got adjusted numbers on Japan, the debate is over, and anyone who disagrees is a vast menace to society and should be locked up. And you think the other side is like the global warming hoaxers.

YOU ARE CLEARLY NUTS
 
fhl said:
You are degenerating into the level of idiocy. You're saying that you've got adjusted numbers on Japan, the debate is over, and anyone who disagrees is a vast menace to society and should be locked up. And you think the other side is like the global warming hoaxers.

YOU ARE CLEARLY NUTS
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The data reports from Japan spell out the exact number of people who died from a disease or were ill from a disease. The figures are not "adjusted", they are raw data that is not possible to argue about. As outlined in the articles I posted, the society in Japan has suffered greatly due to its low MMR vaccination rate. The problems with vaccinations in Japan are well-documented, there is very little room for argument over the facts.

I believe that any scientist that perpetuates a deliberate scientific fraud using fabricated data that harms society should be held accountable for their crime. It does not matter if the subject is autism & vaccinations or AGW.

Andrew Wakefield's scientific fraud rises to the level of a crime and should be prosecuted (and likely will be shortly in the U.K.). While I disagree with "climate change" alarmists and disagree with their assertions; I have never made a case that any AGW scientist's assertions rise to the level of being criminal or they should be prosecuted. I disagree with their use of "adjusted data" and a number of other practices but it is difficult to demonstrate that Mann & others were deliberately fraudulent. The "punishment" for their poor scientific work should be the loss of all government funding.
 
gwb-trading said:
The data reports from Japan spell out the exact number of people who died from a disease or were ill from a disease. The figures are not "adjusted", they are raw data that is not possible to argue about. As outlined in the articles I posted, the society in Japan has suffered greatly due to its low MMR vaccination rate. The problems with vaccinations in Japan are well-documented, there is very little room for argument over the facts.

I believe that any scientist that perpetuates a deliberate scientific fraud using fabricated data that harms society should be held accountable for their crime. It does not matter if the subject is autism & vaccinations or AGW.

Andrew Wakefield's scientific fraud rises to the level of a crime and should be prosecuted (and likely will be shortly in the U.K.). While I disagree with "climate change" alarmists and disagree with their assertions; I have never made a case that any AGW scientist's assertions rise to the level of being criminal or they should be prosecuted. I disagree with their use of "adjusted data" and a number of other practices but it is difficult to demonstrate that Mann & others were deliberately fraudulent. The "punishment" for their poor scientific work should be the loss of all government funding.
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Well the articles I posted said that Japan has not suffered greatly from the ban of the vaccines. That is all a value argument once again. Guess what? Scientists disagree. And some of them are frauds. That's why people shouldn't be forced to comply with one side's version of the truth. They aught to have a choice. You have great faith in you're scientists version of the truth which i do not share. And attempting to claim that if you just take out the chinese vaccines, everything would be hunky dory is 'adjusting' the numbers.

And the fact that wakefield may be prosecuted somewhere holds less than zero sway from me. The gov't is attempting to wrangle a prosecution of Exxon and others for NOT going along with the fraud of global warming. Gov't prosecutions don't prove anything at all to me.
 
fhl said:
And the fact that wakefield may be prosecuted somewhere holds less than zero sway from me. The gov't is attempting to wrangle a prosecution of Exxon and others for NOT going along with the fraud of global warming. Gov't prosecutions don't prove anything at all to me.
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Unfortunately, there is no vaccine for ignorance and people like yourself are often unwilling to educate themselves about these topics. So the government has to mandate certain vaccines to ensure that you cannot harm your community or burden the health care system if you choose to opt out somehow based on superstition or similar reasons. I certainly hope you have no children, because your ideas may be dangerous to them.
 
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