Do trading education scammers (99.99% of the "industry") ever feel guilty?
- Thread starter pursuit
- Start date
if you know this why do you show off your trades and make a website bro , you know whatever you do still many wont believe it , you living so good on your percentage ,why would need others 100 bucks a month , i know you like and love teaching it if that is the case why must be 100 not a 10 bucks , who set this , im not straight want talk about you im talking of majorities wtf really everyone mentoring?
if its holly grail value teaching and lessons that we not know about , why not 10 k worth of study why its 100
these skills , i call it skills can be learn self taught in a few years master it not reall deal just that little patient
anyway i hope everyone health and happiness like you mention thats comes first of first a great wealth
i hope everyone success stay happy
if you know this why do you show off your trades and make a website bro , you know whatever you do still many wont believe it , you living so good on your percentage ,why would need others 100 bucks a month , i know you like and love teaching it if that is the case why must be 100 not a 10 bucks , who set this , im not straight want talk about you im talking of majorities wtf really everyone mentoring?
if its holly grail value teaching and lessons that we not know about , why not 10 k worth of study why its 100
these skills , i call it skills can be learn self taught in a few years master it not reall deal just that little patient
anyway i hope everyone health and happiness like you mention thats comes first of first a great wealth
i hope everyone success stay happy
may krishna godbless buddy bro
It's obvious from just this thread that you won't satisfy everyone.
"Fo' sho'" and all that.
Of the small set that I have taught "trading" -- success of any kind was immediately met with intellectual laziness, skepticism of my entreaties for caution, and then, failure (bad weeks, bad months) of some sort. But it was free -- so, not deemed important.
Why does SteadyOptions charge $100, and why not $10 -- and even why not $10,000?
....... (Translated from emoji: "Oh for fuck's sake.")"Enough said..."
"Teaching is a cop-out on trading." YOU BET YOUR ASS, IT IS. If you are so cerebrally shrunken as to not seek to capitalize on hard-won technique, to every advantage offered by your financial capital AND your ability to stand-and-deliver, you are a fool. "Risk and reward" -- hear of it?
"Those who can, do. Those who can, and teach it too, secure Multiple Streams Of Income."
This is supposed to be a list of resource-savvy persons, but in threads like this..... boy-an'-howdy, I don't see it.
Last edited:
if you know this why do you show off your trades and make a website bro , you know whatever you do still many wont believe it , you living so good on your percentage ,why would need others 100 bucks a month , i know you like and love teaching it if that is the case why must be 100 not a 10 bucks , who set this , im not straight want talk about you im talking of majorities wtf really everyone mentoring?
if its holly grail value teaching and lessons that we not know about , why not 10 k worth of study why its 100
these skills , i call it skills can be learn self taught in a few years master it not reall deal just that little patient
anyway i hope everyone health and happiness like you mention thats comes first of first a great wealth
i hope everyone success stay happy
I don't have a holly grail. Nobody does. Those who tell you that they found a holly grail and are willing to share it with you for $$$/month are exactly the same people who make a bad name for the whole industry.
All I do is share my trades and experience. Nothing more nothing else. And I do it in real time, not hindsight. If you are willing to learn the craft yourself without paying for it - who am I to stop you? You can do your own mistakes, and learn from someone else how to avoid at least some of them.
People are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars for college degree which in many cases is useless, but when it comes to $1k/year for trading education, they consider it expensive..
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance".
Last edited:
I'm kind of late to this thread (since I stopped following it a while ago), but since I see some recent activity, I quickly glanced over the posts and wanted to add my input.
I'm sorry to say that I'm not very impressed with what @Kim Klaiman is sharing. First of all, why does he keep linking his 2015 statement? There is all of 2016... how did that turn out? There is also already 8 months of 2017, how did these go? I have seen traders post returns month after month, for many years, not just a sweet selection.
Secondly, this gain of 80% is actually not that much when you consider it in terms of dollar amount. Most people would not be happy making 39k for an entire year given so much risk. I'm not even going to get into the commissions angle, but they are quite large at 16k, and we did just recently have a thread about this here at ET.
Kim already says that he has hundreds of happy members (https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...-ever-feel-guilty.312818/page-11#post-4513659), so its fairly obvious where the priority is. The business model here is selling education, since this provides so much more income, and whatever happens in the account is of secondary importance.
I'm not sure how real time these trades are, or if anyone is checking the day to day accounting to make sure each trade is properly added up and that the totals for the month add up, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume there are multiple accounts that show different trades and then when it comes time to picking a winner for videos and such, you just pick the account that has done the best. I don't want to insinuate anything without any proof, but once again, because the account is fairly small, and the returns are fairly small, its easy to assume there could be multiple accounts.
Even if this isn't the case, and this is the only account, then its obvious the trader does not have the necessary psychology to trade big size in order to live off of the trading income. If someone can't trade size, you can only learn so much from them. Many traders will say that after a while, with basic knowledge, the psychology aspect is the biggest hurdle to overcome. Ultimately, if you want to be a trader making a few thousand every day, you gotta be able to also lose a few thousand every day and not have this affect you one bit. If you can't see the mentor doing this live, and not having this affect him at all, not scaring him from putting on the next trade, then you quickly end up hitting a brick wall in regards to how much you can learn from him.
I see now that on his website, he discusses the issue of scale-ability, and since his service is about options, which I'm not an expert in, perhaps my thoughts about putting on size don't apply nearly as much. But if you ask me, this crutch is exactly what a trading educator wants. He wants to teach something that has inherent built in drawbacks so that you don't have to worry about certain things, like putting on more size and how that affects you. Its much easier to say you can't push more size through. So then if he is already doing it like this, and if the hundreds of members are already looking for the exact same shit, which is size limited, then how is the new guy going to get in on some of these trades if size is already a factor and you got hundreds of guys all looking at the same shit?
I'm sorry to say that I'm not very impressed with what @Kim Klaiman is sharing. First of all, why does he keep linking his 2015 statement? There is all of 2016... how did that turn out? There is also already 8 months of 2017, how did these go? I have seen traders post returns month after month, for many years, not just a sweet selection.
Secondly, this gain of 80% is actually not that much when you consider it in terms of dollar amount. Most people would not be happy making 39k for an entire year given so much risk. I'm not even going to get into the commissions angle, but they are quite large at 16k, and we did just recently have a thread about this here at ET.
Kim already says that he has hundreds of happy members (https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...-ever-feel-guilty.312818/page-11#post-4513659), so its fairly obvious where the priority is. The business model here is selling education, since this provides so much more income, and whatever happens in the account is of secondary importance.
I'm not sure how real time these trades are, or if anyone is checking the day to day accounting to make sure each trade is properly added up and that the totals for the month add up, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume there are multiple accounts that show different trades and then when it comes time to picking a winner for videos and such, you just pick the account that has done the best. I don't want to insinuate anything without any proof, but once again, because the account is fairly small, and the returns are fairly small, its easy to assume there could be multiple accounts.
Even if this isn't the case, and this is the only account, then its obvious the trader does not have the necessary psychology to trade big size in order to live off of the trading income. If someone can't trade size, you can only learn so much from them. Many traders will say that after a while, with basic knowledge, the psychology aspect is the biggest hurdle to overcome. Ultimately, if you want to be a trader making a few thousand every day, you gotta be able to also lose a few thousand every day and not have this affect you one bit. If you can't see the mentor doing this live, and not having this affect him at all, not scaring him from putting on the next trade, then you quickly end up hitting a brick wall in regards to how much you can learn from him.
I see now that on his website, he discusses the issue of scale-ability, and since his service is about options, which I'm not an expert in, perhaps my thoughts about putting on size don't apply nearly as much. But if you ask me, this crutch is exactly what a trading educator wants. He wants to teach something that has inherent built in drawbacks so that you don't have to worry about certain things, like putting on more size and how that affects you. Its much easier to say you can't push more size through. So then if he is already doing it like this, and if the hundreds of members are already looking for the exact same shit, which is size limited, then how is the new guy going to get in on some of these trades if size is already a factor and you got hundreds of guys all looking at the same shit?
Most fraud rooms claim the same shit Klaiman is Klaiming: we have live signals, come see for yourself and here's our record. If they're unlucky enough to get pounded in the ass by CFTC or SEC all of that turns out to be bogus. In my opinion, without audited statements there's no reason to trust Klaiman's claims more than any other room's.
And for those who wonder why he runs the service. $$$. Most people don't realize how profitable subscription sites are. Do the math. $100/mo. 1000 members. Not too shabby.
Last edited:
Dear @Gotcha
Before jumping to conclusions, I recommend spending few minutes on our website and see what we offer.
1. All trades are shared on the forum within few minutes of my fills, including opening, adjustment and closing trades. When the trade is closed, it is posted on the performance page.
2. If 80%/year is not impressive enough for you, then you really don't need me or any other service. This account has been selected to make it as close as possible to the model portfolios. I never claimed that you can make those kinds of returns on a multi million account.
3. In terms of scalibility - we offer SteadyOptions service for smaller accounts (10-100k) and Steady Condors for bigger accounts. Model portfolio is exactly what it is, and the size is 10k to make it possible for the "little guy" to participate.
4. In terms of other accounts that I have or don't have - this is not really relevant. The track record shows performance of those specific strategies, and the only thing that matters is the performance of those model portfolios.
5. In addition to "official" track record, we also have dozens of "unofficial" trades that are shared by members, that never make it to the model portfolio for various reasons.
6. "whatever happens in the account is of secondary importance." - well, if the account did not grow, that would mean the trading was not profitable. I can assure you I would not have hundreds of members in this case, so things are definitely related.
The bottom line is: SteadyOptions is not just about trade alerts. It is about access to the most advanced and sophisticated options trading community. Is it worth the money? That's for you to decide.
Before jumping to conclusions, I recommend spending few minutes on our website and see what we offer.
1. All trades are shared on the forum within few minutes of my fills, including opening, adjustment and closing trades. When the trade is closed, it is posted on the performance page.
2. If 80%/year is not impressive enough for you, then you really don't need me or any other service. This account has been selected to make it as close as possible to the model portfolios. I never claimed that you can make those kinds of returns on a multi million account.
3. In terms of scalibility - we offer SteadyOptions service for smaller accounts (10-100k) and Steady Condors for bigger accounts. Model portfolio is exactly what it is, and the size is 10k to make it possible for the "little guy" to participate.
4. In terms of other accounts that I have or don't have - this is not really relevant. The track record shows performance of those specific strategies, and the only thing that matters is the performance of those model portfolios.
5. In addition to "official" track record, we also have dozens of "unofficial" trades that are shared by members, that never make it to the model portfolio for various reasons.
6. "whatever happens in the account is of secondary importance." - well, if the account did not grow, that would mean the trading was not profitable. I can assure you I would not have hundreds of members in this case, so things are definitely related.
The bottom line is: SteadyOptions is not just about trade alerts. It is about access to the most advanced and sophisticated options trading community. Is it worth the money? That's for you to decide.
Last edited:
What does this even mean? Selected? Is this not your only trading account? How many are there?
It is exactly relevant. Its far too easy to have 5 accounts, 4 of which suck, and 1 which, by way of statistical luck, turns out good. I want to see each of those trades you say you take every day tabulated in a spreadsheet so that at the end of the period, the monthly returns matches all the trades taken.
You missed answering the most important questions. Why do you not have a month by month update of your results? 2015 was a year where the markets essentially went sideways. From my understanding of options, depending on the strategy, this is exactly what is needed. But once it starts to move, either up or down, the strategy gets crushed.
You keep mentioning your service. You must really not care about trading income, other than to keep it at least profitable so that more people sign up.
So you are essentially saying that you don't really care about trading profits, or even if the alerts for trade signals work out, but just about having the most members, which you nicely put as "trading community".
Baron provides a trading community, and its free!
And just in case you missed it the first time, what are the results of 2016? How about the monthly results for 2017?
Update: Ok.. just before I hit send I decided to go to the website to look up stats in case you did have them. But if you ask me, its all over the place. The P/L listed in terms of % is so misleading since it could be a 30% win which amounts to $40.
Then you list this,
- The returns exclude commissions since those vary between brokers.
I also see that 2015 was an exceptional year, and others were far below this, like 2016 which was -9.3% under the Steady Condor section.
Its very difficult to make any sense of anything because you have multiple strategies, or whatever you call it, and which everything being written in terms of percentage, its really hard to compare things in terms of money made or lost.
Granted, the equity curve for 2017 looks decent, but once again, going from 10k to 18k is only good for you, since you're actually paying your bills from the website and not your trading, but if you had to derive your income from trading, which is what I assume your subscribers wants to do, who knows where your PnL would actually be. They could of course start a website themselves and compete with you for new members!
To quote Emmett of tradingschools.org:
"The top 10, most common excuses that I hear from trading signal providers regarding account statements is as follows:
"The top 10, most common excuses that I hear from trading signal providers regarding account statements is as follows:
- I cannot provide proof because it’s against the law. (It’s not)
- I switched brokers recently and I cannot access my old account statements.
- My account statements are irrelevant because it is impossible to copy another person’s trades.
- My wife say’s that it might reveal our personal identity and someone crazy might visit us.
- I don’t want the tax authorities to discover how much income I actually earn.
- My rivals might use my account statements to market their own trading products.
- My rivals will be able to figure out my secret strategy.
- I work for an exclusive hedge fund and my boss will fire me if they discover that I am selling company secrets.
- I trade for a bank or hedge fund and cannot show company account statements.
- I am a very private person. I don’t really need this extra income from selling signals, making this extra money is not that important to me."