Do not raise taxes on the rich, don't they suffer enough?

[morganist]

Quote from Archin:

Well they do have some power as they own the largest portions of many of our companies. These corporations can stop outsourcing and importing to a certain degree. At any rate the rich have proven that they're greedy and are good at influencing economic policy to their advantage if nothing else.

OK. Assuming they own large portions of your companies. If you tax them more and they have to sell the shares to pay it what will happen to the price of the shares in the companies. They will fall, pension returns will fall and there will be an increase in poeverty. All money does something. Wealthy peoples money does something, they may hold it but it pushes up the prices of the investments the middle and lower classes hold.

 

[Archin]

Quote from morganist:

OK. Assuming they own large portions of your companies. If you tax them more and they have to sell the shares to pay it what will happen to the price of the shares in the companies. They will fall, pension returns will fall and there will be an increase in poeverty. All money does something. Wealthy peoples money does something, they may hold it but it pushes up the prices of the investments the middle and lower classes hold.

Many of these companies have value because of their earnings or earnings potential, and will only fall so far before someone sees a buying opportunity for short term profit or for long term return on investment.
Let's look at it this way if i'm a government and i'm somehow spending more money then i take in i'm lining someone's pockets. I'm providing jobs and profit for my country and other countries by paying for services and good produced(or natural resources). Now the more people hoarding that money(and the more going to other countries) the less income the government will get from taxes, the higher the debt. A higher and higher debt and eventually you won't be able to tax your way out of the interest on the debt alone, creating a permanent ever increasing deficit.

 

[morganist]

your point.
Many of these companies have value because of their earnings or earnings potential, and will only fall so far before someone sees a buying opportunity for short term profit or for long term return on investment.

answer.
Whose going to buy it if they don't have any money?

your point.
Let's look at it this way if i'm a government and i'm somehow spending more money then i take in i'm lining someone's pockets. I'm providing jobs and profit for my country and other countries by paying for services and good produced. Now the more people hoarding that money the less income the government will get from taxes, the higher the debt. A higher and higher debt and eventually you won't be able to tax your way out of the interest on the debt alone, creating a permanent ever increasing deficit.

answer.
They are not hoarding it in the way you mean. As I said above they are providing investment. They are providing companies with the funds they need or propping up the value of the company. This provides jobs too.

What you are suggesting is merely taking the money away from the private sector and giving it to the public sector, who racked up all of the debt.

 

[Archin]

Quote from morganist:

your point.
Many of these companies have value because of their earnings or earnings potential, and will only fall so far before someone sees a buying opportunity for short term profit or for long term return on investment.

answer.
Whose going to buy it if they don't have any money?

your point.
Let's look at it this way if i'm a government and i'm somehow spending more money then i take in i'm lining someone's pockets. I'm providing jobs and profit for my country and other countries by paying for services and good produced. Now the more people hoarding that money the less income the government will get from taxes, the higher the debt. A higher and higher debt and eventually you won't be able to tax your way out of the interest on the debt alone, creating a permanent ever increasing deficit.

answer.
They are not hoarding it in the way you mean. As I said above they are providing investment. They are providing companies with the funds they need or propping up the value of the company. This provides jobs too.

What you are suggesting is merely taking the money away from the private sector and giving it to the public sector, who racked up all of the debt.

Well the government also racked up debt all by itself.
The money the rich have that is propping up those investments is of course financed by the government debt... The money the government spends is in some ways or another ending up in the pockets of the rich so it makes sence to tax them more. If the government has to keep spending more and more while the wealthy still get wealthier and the poor lose more wealth you eventually come to realize they are taking advantage of the system to get wealth they never really deserved.

 

[morganist]

Quote from Archin:

Well the government also racked up debt all by itself

No the government racked up the debt in the public sector. The central bank racked up the debt in the private sector. In both cases it was not the fault of the rich people. They merely made money. There is no crime in that nor is it their fault the situation happened.

The money they hold helps people more than it hinders through the investments they make money is lent out also shares prices are driven up making pension funds more valuable.

 

[Archin]

Quote from morganist:

No the government racked up the debt in the public sector. The central bank racked up the debt in the private sector. In both cases it was not the fault of the rich people. They merely made money. There is no crime in that nor is it their fault the situation happened.

The money they hold helps people more than it hinders through the investments they make money is lent out also shares prices are driven up making pension funds more valuable.

Pension funds will be less and less common(or our auto companies can keep going bankrupt) how can a company forced to have these liabilities compete with a company in India/china/etc.?
But back to the main point, Yes the money of the rich is doing something, but it would not just disappear if taxed it would do more good in the hands of those more in need of it. My point is those extremely wealthy are usually not deserving and most take advantage of economic policies(that they may have influenced into creation) , or promote outsourcing, imports, etc. if it will help line their pockets things that damage the wealth of the country, while lining their own pockets
If there's no crime in taking advantage of those situations there's certainly no crime in taxing them.

 

[morganist]

your comment.
Pension funds will be less and less common(or our auto companies can keep going bankrupt) how can a company forced to have these liabilities compete with a company in India/china/etc.?
But back to the main point, Yes the money of the rich is doing something, but it would not just disappear if taxed it would do more good in the hands of those more in need of it.

answer.
Actually it would disapear. If the government is in indebted abroad then the money will go to the foreign countries taking it from the US.

your point.
My point is those extremely wealthy are usually not deserving and most take advantage of economic policies(that they may have influenced into creation) , or promote outsourcing, imports, etc. if it will help line their pockets things that damage the wealth of the country, while lining their own pockets
If there's no crime in taking advantage of those situations there's certainly no crime in taxing them.

answer.
Who are you to say who is deserving. There must be reasons why they have the money, does them earning it not justify them holding it? Also as stated above the money taken would go abroad. It would not help people in the US much at all. In relation to corruption legislation is the method of dealing with it not taxes.

 

[Archin]

Quote from morganist:

your comment.
Pension funds will be less and less common(or our auto companies can keep going bankrupt) how can a company forced to have these liabilities compete with a company in India/china/etc.?
But back to the main point, Yes the money of the rich is doing something, but it would not just disappear if taxed it would do more good in the hands of those more in need of it.

answer.
Actually it would disapear. If the government is in indebted abroad then the money will go to the foreign countries taking it from the US.

your point.
My point is those extremely wealthy are usually not deserving and most take advantage of economic policies(that they may have influenced into creation) , or promote outsourcing, imports, etc. if it will help line their pockets things that damage the wealth of the country, while lining their own pockets
If there's no crime in taking advantage of those situations there's certainly no crime in taxing them.

answer.
Who are you to say who is deserving. There must be reasons why they have the money, does them earning it not justify them holding it? Also as stated above the money taken would go abroad. It would not help people in the US much at all. In relation to corruption legislation is the method of dealing with it not taxes.

Repaying debt not disappeared gone as it was created(by the government).

Promoting outsourcing, imports is deserving? Since it's a democracy i guess the voters will decide who is deserving...

 

[morganist]

your comment.
Then it would disappear as it was created(by the government).

answer.
What did the governmetn create?

your comment.
Since it's a democracy i guess the voters will decide who is deserving...
If the voters decided to tax

answer.
If the people elect higher taxes people will leave. It is what happens.

 

[Archin]

Quote from morganist:

your comment.
Then it would disappear as it was created(by the government).

answer.
What did the governmetn create?

your comment.
Since it's a democracy i guess the voters will decide who is deserving...
If the voters decided to tax

answer.
If the people elect higher taxes people will leave. It is what happens.

I guess i would call it wealth financed by debt(what the government "created")

Well i'm not certain but i think even if they leave they still will owe taxes.