Do indicators work?

[nwbprop]

Quote from dbphoenix:



There was an old vaudevillian named Cliff Nazarro. He specialized in "double-talk". He'd begin his part of the routine with perfectly ordinary, understandable sentences, but then he'd begin to insert words that were legitimate words but which had no place in what he was saying. Therefore, people would look at him with blank stares trying to interpret what he was saying, believing that it was their fault for not understanding since all the words were ordinary English words. He didn't use made-up words like Jerry Lewis did; he seemed to be making perfect sense. Sid Caesar did something similar in the fifties, and Robin Williams now. (If you're interested, catch You'll Never Get Rich on TCM sometime; he acts as an information clerk at the railroad station, "helping" Fred Astaire with a timetable.)

Jack Hershey is our resident Cliff Nazarro. If you don't think of it as comic relief, you'll start banging your head against the wall

--Db

In defense of Jack Hershey of which he doesn't need or care about. I am a prop trader who's primary strategy was scalping nasdaq stocks. I was averaging about $1000 a day. I have recently applied Jacks methods to trading the spys. After 2 (long, arduous, and with 100 share lot) months of using his system, i have been averaging 100 cents per day. I am currently using 2000 share lots and have increased my average day to $3000 (1000 from scalp,2000 from spy) a day.

Its really a shame that people would rather berate him after reading his posts only once rather than read his posts multiple times to understand what he is actually trying to convey. This reminds me of my Wharton undergrad experience at the University of Pennsylvania. Our classes would receive incredibly arduous case studies that we would be tested on. The students who TOOK THE TIME TO REALLY UNDERSTAND the case studies knew what was going on and would receive A's and B's. The others would say the case studies are too complicated and were not discernable. They of course would receive C's and D's (grade inflation, they don't give F's). The students who did bad would usually blame the professor.

Jack is giving a system. Are you going to be an A , B student or C,D student. Db already told us where he fits on the bell curve.:eek:


jc

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from nwbprop:

Are you going to be an A , B student or C,D student. Db already told us where he fits on the bell curve.:eek:

You're making the assumption that in order to be classified as an A/B student, one must make the effort to understand and utilize Jack's "system". The point, however, is to make money, and one can do as well or better with a simple trend/reaction system (which is, basically, what the Hershey system is) with far fewer trades and no indicators.

Couching one's system in language that cannot be understood without arduous study is not only arrogant but betrays disrespect for whomever one is trying to communicate with (cf psychiatry).

The true masters such as Wyckoff were extraordinarily clear. If one truly wants to communicate, it behooves him to work toward this clarity. If he makes no effort to do so, that says more about him than about his audience.

And why is all this being dragged up again?

 

[nwbprop]

Quote from dbphoenix:



You're making the assumption that in order to be classified as an A/B student, one must make the effort to understand and utilize Jack's "system". The point, however, is to make money, and one can do as well or better with a simple trend/reaction system (which is, basically, what the Hershey system is) with far fewer trades and no indicators.

Couching one's system in language that cannot be understood without arduous study is not only arrogant but betrays disrespect for whomever one is trying to communicate with (cf psychiatry).

The true masters such as Wyckoff were extraordinarily clear. If one truly wants to communicate, it behooves him to work toward this clarity. If he makes no effort to do so, that says more about him than about his audience.

And why is all this being dragged up again?

I should have been more specific. I meant the bell curve for Jack's system. I am glad that you are making great money. It is probably well deserved. I just thought calling Jack Hershey's efforts as a "comical relief" to be totally wrong and found his efforts to be very rewarding to those who took the time to understand him. Thats my main point. Also, Jack Hershey has NEVER called himself a master. So why are YOU comparing him to the masters? He is just offering what works for him. Anyway, good luck, and i hope your sytem continues with success.

jc

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from nwbprop:

I just thought calling Jack Hershey's efforts as a "comical relief" to be totally wrong and found his efforts to be very rewarding to those who took the time to understand him. Thats my main point. Also, Jack Hershey has NEVER called himself a master.

The jury's still out on whether his efforts are rewarding or not. No one's been using it long enough to be able to draw any conclusions.

As for his calling himself a master, perhaps not literally. But when someone suggests that those who follow his system will make big bucks from the getgo, one can assume that he considers himself to be operating somewhere within the guru realm. The real masters do it just as well, if not better, and much simpler.

But, again, this is all old news. Why bring it up again? Are we to enter another Jack Hershey cycle?

 

[top_step]

I've tried to follow Jack's comments for some time and basically have failed to see the light. Perhaps if nwbprop has broken the code or at least extracted enough to produce a vast improvement in his trading performance, he might be willing to share a simplified version that us mere mortals can decipher. I have a master's degree in an engineering field and a number of years experience in the markets with modest success. I'm sure a number of traders would be interested.

One basic question I would have is : once the market and time frame (fractal dimension or whatever) is selected, is the trade execution mechanical or discretionary? I suspect the latter not that there's anytime terribly wrong with that.

 

[candletrader]

Do indicators work? ... mmm... well, that depends on the trader using em

 

[traderkay]

INDICATORS WORK, but maybe not for you. Sounds crazy but true. Or sad but true)

 

[exce26]

Indicators will work, if you use it in the opposite way...

 

[nwbprop]

Quote from topstep:

I've tried to follow Jack's comments for some time and basically have failed to see the light. Perhaps if nwbprop has broken the code or at least extracted enough to produce a vast improvement in his trading performance, he might be willing to share a simplified version that us mere mortals can decipher. I have a master's degree in an engineering field and a number of years experience in the markets with modest success. I'm sure a number of traders would be interested.

One basic question I would have is : once the market and time frame (fractal dimension or whatever) is selected, is the trade execution mechanical or discretionary? I suspect the latter not that there's anytime terribly wrong with that.

What i have tried to do was to really get to know what a rocket pattern looks like on the 5M and 1M fractals. You probably know what a rocket pattern for the 5M looks like because Jack goes in depth with it. Try to see what the 1M pattern looks like when the 5M shows a rocket. There are a few bars of consolidation followed by a break out towards the trend followed by a few bars of consolidation etc. THis is what you want to have and anticipate happening. I like to get in when the 1M macd xover(with when no flaws usually creates a point 3) toward the trend on the 5M. IF i don't get that break out within a few bars(Flaw), i get out. I would call this more mechanical than discretionary.

afternoon:FTP,FBP,symmetrical triangle are all break out plays. I then anticipate it turning into a rocket. IF there are any flaws, i get out. I am still having trouble discerning flaws on a BO.

I hope this helps.

jc

 

[top_step]

Yes that explanation is reasonably clear. It would seem to work well in a very clearly trending market. When the both the 5m and 1m trends tend to turn flat and choppy, what is the proper strategy then? - Stand aside and wait for 5m trend reversal or continuation or perhaps move to a different time frame to find a trend? Your explanation indicates how to enter a given trade. What strategy do you use for the exit if you wish to reveal it?