Disheartened.

Quote from Bogwaluth:

Well, I offically entered into the daytrading world on May 22nd. I trade at a firm where they all scalp. You know, trade 100k shares, pay $1000 in commissions and take home $500-$2000 depending on the quality of your trades.

They preach a tape reading approach. I have tried for one month now to get it. I am getting there, but it's tough. I battle all day only to come out just under the VIG. My typical winning day is like $10, my typical losing day is $50. Not a formula for success.

I know I am just learning. But today I needed to stop. Everything I trade immediately went the other way. Any winners I had weren't even enough to cover the comms.

This is a whole new mentality for me. I spent 5 years learning to trade futures. I do fairly well with that.

Day trading just drives me nuts. My methods don't work because stocks move retardedly( and my methods don't deal well with that) I can predict small moves in stock prices, but the bid/ask spread and learning to play the finger tickle game eats me up.

Is it me or is scalping in and out all day 95% execution? Feels that way.

Are you other scalpers that rip off 100k shares a day blasting around a bunch of different stocks or are you focused on one?

I wouldn't mind it mentally if my winning days and losing days were equal, it would be a small victory. Mentally, the 5:1 difference is killing me. Not to mention the number of days I was gross positive only to be a loser due to the vig.

I know it can be done, there are people in my office driving brand new Benzs and Porsches.

I am a math guy, I haven't yet figured out how to tickle the bid/ask, get the print you want. I was never good at fast fingered video games. So far I have noticed that the best scalpers....

1) Type fast.
2) Act fast.
3) Make like 100+ trades a day
4) Somehow come out profiting 1-2 pennies a share.

On days I try that, I end up a loser due to costs. Mental anguish.

I'll get it. I can read the tape, I just don't act fast enough. Sadly, when I act fast I'm not reading the tape well. Now if I could just get those 2 together.

Thanks for reading my vent.

B
More...
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Bog;
Your personality is like mine, not a fast typer /dont have TO BE TO PROFIT intraday derivatives,
,do better you say with derivatives???????.:cool:

Is there some reason you HAVEN'T ANSWERED OUR QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY TRADE -scalp STOCKS/quit derivatives????????????

Sounds like thats the best work plan for you is derivatives;
surely you can find someone to let you do that,
1 contract /home office would be a vast improvement.
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ESpecially you say have 5 years derivatives experience;
wisdom is profitable to direct,.

Fankly with your personanlty -typing speed like mine ;
would you be suprised if i told you the highest probability is you are wasting your time with a speedy/small cents/trade approach?????????????????????????????????????????????
 
I was going to suggest you get out.

Mark beat me to it :D

Get the hell out and do what you are naturally good at.

People who fight the tide eventually get tired and drown.

Get back to doing what makes you money and if you still need to scalp. Do it from your own home office.

Good luck
Steve
 
Bogwaluth,

I am going to go out on a limb here, This was your real question....

Are you other scalpers that rip off 100k shares a day blasting around a bunch of different stocks or are you focused on one?
 
Not really Electric. I was merely brain dumping.

There's a guy who sits behind me who trades 10 stocks unless he sees something good. (He makes alot of money) There's a dude who jumps around like a monkey. (He makes decent money)

I just can't imagine seeing that many good things, to trade 100k+ shares on 30 different stocks. But that dude does all sorts of funky things and when I ask what he's doing and how do I learn, he says it takes time. I mean the tricks of market selling to see where you get filled, placing bids and offers to make to NYOB look good or weak. A million things, but mainly all in 5-10 stocks.

Everyone who I asked about the tape says it takes time. Time, time time. I am convinced that no one wants to explain it. It has to be explainable, everything is explainable.

So I read the tape, found a long today....missed hitting the button by 1 sec, he spread up, printed it-got filled here- one more time(smaller spread), printed the bid, I tried to get out, he spread down, I lost money.

My computer has 120 options to get into the market. Honestly...is that necessary?

The above was more mind dump. I know dudes that make money tradng one stock and dudes that do it trading 100. I also know dudes that lose money both ways. What a guy to do?

But 50-100 trades a day? That's what I don't get....how do they see it? If I make that many, I'm guessing. 100 trades is 1 trade every 3 minutes.

Anyother funny thing I noticed is that most of the profitable traders make 60-80+ percent of their money on 5% of their trades. Why the other churning? Why not set it up that way?

Ugh....now I have rambled more and more. Boooooo me.

B
 
Tape reading, while the basics are easy to explain (just read Maverick74's thread on it), the actual application of it is difficult to explain. There are so many situations and different ways to interpret the tape depending on the situation that trying to explain it is just too hard. But, its really true, it DOES take time. You need to allow yourself to experience 100's of trading days, all the while compiling info in your head about what works and what doesnt and then, things will seem to make more sense. Take it from the experienced guys at your firm that make money, if they say to keep with it and be patient, then probably know what they are talking about.
 
How do you scalp stocks? What's the idea? Are you acting as a market maker and putting out bids and offers and hoping someone dumps a market order in and gives you a fill? Or are you looking for little micro trends and hitting the bid or offer yourself and then trying to ride it for a few cents before quickly getting out? Or is it something completely different?

I'm impressed that people can make money with such short term holding periods.

Good trading to you,
Aaron Schindler
Schindler Trading
 
I began in the same way you did, but over time I discovered that my temperament doesn't suit pounding out endless .10 moves. I still find the tape to be incredibly valuable, but I don't rely on it to discover where buyers and sellers are but rather to time my entries and judge my risk. Once the position is set I watch it to determine the overall pressure on the stock: how quick/sharp it spreads countertrend, where the prints are and how big they are, etc.

The good thing about trading is that it can accommodate any time frame. If you have a subconscious feeling that you're not suited for scalping, try reading a bit about continuation and reversal patterns and experiment with longer holding times. Develop the habit of measuring targets and holding on until they're reached or there's a change in sentiment. You'll begin to see how trends and patterns unfold better to reflect broader sentiment.

But yes, like Steve said, a month is not enough to discover if the style doesn't fit you or trading as a whole rubs you the wrong way. Just don't let them force you into a pattern that you know will drive you insane. Your career is more important than your capacity to generate commissions.
 
the truth is the key to scalping short term is taking alot of shots and having cheap commissions. take many of the traders on the p@l board ,put them at .007 or so and commissions eat them alive.scalpers take a ton of shots with small stops out to get the 50 cent to $1 move. i used to trade 200-500k shares a day and if you increased my commissions from .002 to .006 i made zero money. cheap commissions allowed me to take tons of swings and catch a few big waves.
 
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