Quote from Redneck:
Trader starts a thread about gurus/ shills â biggest, most nonsensical shill of all shows up and gets defensive â Love itâ¦.
X,
I gave this some more thought â what follows is a compilation of the deficiencies I encountered after attending two formal (paid) classes, and subscribing to three trading services
-Ignored direct questions, or answered in an ambiguous/ non answer way
-Did not provide an appreciation of the amount of uncertainty
-Not enough one on one - or figuring out how I learned/ my competency level
-No mention of protective stops â or minimal emphasis on risk protection
-Tried to explain a move â like he knew why
-Lot of after the fact trading (off an existing chart)
-Using delayed data to trade from
-Too much emphasis on using indicators
- Too much ego â meaning when I didnât get it the first time/ or questioned it â was talked down to like I was an idiot (Hershey comes to mind hereâ¦. And by the way should Hershey read this and want to make a comment about me being an idiot â go for it â Iâm impervious to the bullshit at this point)
-High pressure to buy more, buy the next level as more secrets will be revealed
-No insight on how to read price - from any of them
-No.., or BS type setups (think stochs at overbought/ over sold⦠or MACD crossing type stuff)
-No insight to how this business/ wallstreet really works
Probably more but I canât recall it/ them at the momentâ¦
RN
RN comments on the "deficiencies I encountered". He found them after he began his quest.
When I look at the list, it looks like a list of items from a person looking for a way to make money off markets.
My view is that anyone from fifth grade on up can learn how markets operate and use that knowledge to develop expert trading skills.
Haing a map and a set of drills to do along the path on the map is the CPM way to learn how the market operates and how to hone the skills of expert trading.
In 1999, Jack Schwager published one of his many books: "Getting Started in Technical Analysis". If you leafed this book, what would be your first conclusion after about a minute? Notice that in chapter 17 there is a list 82 items long. Of course, Schwager thought it through before publishing.
It would probably be just like RN's list.
How do both of these people get to be in the same camp?
How to they reconcile staying in that camp?
I feel that is about SOP for the trading community. But I do not feel it HAS to be the standard for anyone who wishes to choose otherwise. This is just the way it is for these people and for those who wind up in the same camp.
For RN, he chooses to make me the extreme of his experience in several ways. That's cool. It is his ongoing choice.
To get the best answers a person has to have the best questions.
In iterative refinement, each question generates a drill to get the solution. As time passes the problem shifts and grows more and more focused. Anyone can see each drill to deal with the items on the list.
How can anyone deal with a problem topic? They can handle the whole thing in one gulp or thay can handle its parts and then put the pieves together. Usually if you try to knock off soething in one dulp, you will find you left out something critical. You get to address these critical things once you find them subsequently.
what consclusions can a mentor draw about people he has mentored? A few that will come along for anyone mentoring, are:
1. Most people follow the same path to learn.
2. People who focus on making money take longer to learn and get over this misorientation very slowly. (2 or 3 sessions)
3. Most people do not do drills.
4. Most people do learn to do drills after they get over not doing drills.
5. Most learning occurs when you sleep. When you wake up and beging to work again, that is when you go from unconscious to conscios awareness of what you have learned in doing drills.
6. Most important concept recognized by learning intermediate traders is staying on the correct side of the market. Beginners do not get this understanding ingrained in thier makeup.
7. In learning skills there is a point where finding pieces becomes less important than putting pieces to gether. It is a piont in the mind's accumulated inference that "differentiation" becomes the subject. questions can be asked to "fill in" spots in the differentiation that are blank and need to be added to give "continuity"
8. One of the great experiences of mentoring is the time when the learner goes through not reacting to "anticipating". This only occurs when the mind has a lot of continuity in its differentiation. What is the key ingredient? I chatted with Covell to demonstrate this. It is the difference between trend following and monitoring and analysis of trends. In the webb and before when only emails sufficed, this played out everyday by the SOP of initiating the emails "ahead" of market action. Since the webb, things changed to a much more sceptical nature on the part of "outsiders" compared to "insiders". ET has little or no "antiicpatory" orientation. You can chalk this up to the camp of having a price orientation where an up down orientation persists.
9. The switch from up/down to right/left ocurrs well before the switch from entry/exit (the taking a breather stage of skills) to hold/reversal trading. In mentoring the best point to make is that all good entries are the same as good exits (they are at the same time for ends of profit segments).
10. the supreme mentoring esperinces are when a learning trader cannot only anticipate, he can make the judgement toshift fractals with respect to extraction of the market's offer.
11. Scaning panels to trade is one of the last advances an intermediate makes before becoming an expert. On ggod platforms annotation carrying from one panel to another. Few platform as yet have global variables so monitoring is still in the dark ages, technically speaking. By this time the learning trader has 10 to 12 leading indicator of price. Price is always a trailing indicator of price.
12. finally, there is what is called "facility" at each level of drilling. Ther ARE four stages of micro learning. The last is unconscious competence. It might be pgrases as knowing where to look at what time. I described this ongoing character of trading in my office with others. There was a rule that I ask no questions. What replaced it was others volunteeering what was nest on the pertinent panel. By being able to scan displays in an orderly manner, a person can always anticipate trades and carve turns. (See Sweeps Chart).
So what went wrong with Schwager? When in the above can a learning trader rewrite Schwager?
RN shows that a list cannot be prepped by a learner. He shows that he has a specific orientation for getting informed. He defines getting his moneyâs worth on his terms. 10,000 hours is well behind now for RN.
Copy a picture by doing it up-side-down. When you turn it over you will find it is better that you could have drawn the subject in any other way. Why let YOU hold your mind back?
Settle down and make up list of what you NEED to learn. Orient to learning and the profits take care of themselves.
