Doj, do not confuse intense concentration on the fleeting now with lack of earnest desire for success in the far distant future. A split second decision in the fleeting now combined with patience in the boring interim may lead to intense satisfaction in the distant future. That distant future may be this afternoon, or next week, or next year, depending on the ability of the object of one's desire to sustain pleasure, be she a stock or a woman. If ye know not whereof I speak, in life or in trading, then I have a limited number of slots available for pro bono clients. The waiting list is long. For clients seeking pleasure. I assure you that the ability to give pleasure is a lot easier to verify than the abilty to trade profitably.
Discussion: The problems with trader training services are...
- Thread starter Xspurt
- Start date
AD,
Small wonder why youâre popular with the ladies â and youâve just confirmed a suspicion Iâve had all along â you do have a sensitive sideâ¦.
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If you took my post as advocating trading teachers/ mentors/ shills â specifically the ones who teach for a price â I donât
On the other hand â traders on this site alone have provided more than enough knowledge (and by default taken on the a role of a teacher/ mentor) â that anyone should be able to piece together how to trade â and do so successfully
Yet so many still struggle â and continue to make the same mistakes already made countless times beforeâ¦
Trading is more than just gaining the knowledge - it is all about being able to put that knowledge to use - imho
That was my point Sir
RN
Small wonder why youâre popular with the ladies â and youâve just confirmed a suspicion Iâve had all along â you do have a sensitive sideâ¦.
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If you took my post as advocating trading teachers/ mentors/ shills â specifically the ones who teach for a price â I donât
On the other hand â traders on this site alone have provided more than enough knowledge (and by default taken on the a role of a teacher/ mentor) â that anyone should be able to piece together how to trade â and do so successfully
Yet so many still struggle â and continue to make the same mistakes already made countless times beforeâ¦
Trading is more than just gaining the knowledge - it is all about being able to put that knowledge to use - imho
That was my point Sir
RN
RN, I do readily concede in this season of regret, that thou art my better. For thou hast percei-ved in ET more wisdom than have I. Absent your generous encomium, I would have labell-ed them a funch of bucking idiots. For ET represent-eth the conventional wisdom writ large, whereas the unconventional wisdom respresenteth unconventional profits writ small. But my opinion counteth for nought, for I am the world's ugliest butch lesbian, with the world's biggest clit.
I began my trading career by paying about $25k in todays money to be trained by someone who was making 50 - 100% PA. Most of it was distance learning with a one-on-one every 6 to 8 weeks. The relationship continued for two years and during that time I lost heavily, as did almost all the other students. In fact, the only successful one I knew of made a mistake by his own confession and got into a spike up and held.
The trainer is still trading today and continues to be successful, but the problem is he is one of the worst communicators I have ever encountered. He has the gift of making a small group of traders believe the opposite of what he just said. So to further confound the issue, you might have a star performer that can only train you into total bewilderment.
It is interesting to see that so far the majority have developed their own technique, something frightfully difficult to achieve. I know first hand because I have. But contrary to what has been mentioned as the path of simplicity, my twisted mind decided to break all the rules and reinvent the wheel - and I think mine is rounder and faster lol. Well didn't Andres Segovia break all the rules in the strict world of classical guitar and then his method became the classic method?
ND touches on something interesting - a fantastic sim trader who cannot trade live. Of course winning the sim game is not unusual only to find trading is a different game, but excellent sim trading draws some analogies.
You could find a fantastic trainer who cannot trade - but he still would need to be able to demonstrate winning sim trading. It interests me to find wonderfully gifted soccer players who usually become failed coaches and hopeless players who become gifted coaches. There is something about knowing yourself that is only discovered when you train others. That was part of the reason for my experiment to see what would happen when I trained a group with mixed levels of abilities and experience.
I found that one of the top performers had a tendency to self destruct without close man management, yet he was a gifted trader. Another thing I discovered was I could bring about an almost instant breakthrough when a trader reached a sticking point that had been a major source of frustration. It was so easy to see the problem and solution - how I wish I had received that assistance.
So some trainers can't get over the emotion and distraction of trading live, but they correctly perceive what needs to be done. Other trainers fool themselves because they think they perceive what event is happening, but they are deceived. Sim or live, you have to see it to believe it. There needs to be real proof with live entries and exits.
Many trainers can have a lot in common with confidence tricksters. They might know a bit more than you and that makes them an authority, but what they know best is how to part you from your money. I have never had an Internet business, but I remember a guru saying something like "You don't want to provide the solution. You want to provide the tools that someone believes will take them on to the next step of their dreams, Then you can resell them." A lot of what goes on for trader training is exactly that.
Is it OTA that has franchised their trader training and now losers are buying canned presentations to offer others the steps to their dreams, never mind they have never placed a trade themselves! Says a lot about the originator of this fluff.
Oh and a postscript for RN. Once was enough
The trainer is still trading today and continues to be successful, but the problem is he is one of the worst communicators I have ever encountered. He has the gift of making a small group of traders believe the opposite of what he just said. So to further confound the issue, you might have a star performer that can only train you into total bewilderment.
It is interesting to see that so far the majority have developed their own technique, something frightfully difficult to achieve. I know first hand because I have. But contrary to what has been mentioned as the path of simplicity, my twisted mind decided to break all the rules and reinvent the wheel - and I think mine is rounder and faster lol. Well didn't Andres Segovia break all the rules in the strict world of classical guitar and then his method became the classic method?
ND touches on something interesting - a fantastic sim trader who cannot trade live. Of course winning the sim game is not unusual only to find trading is a different game, but excellent sim trading draws some analogies.
You could find a fantastic trainer who cannot trade - but he still would need to be able to demonstrate winning sim trading. It interests me to find wonderfully gifted soccer players who usually become failed coaches and hopeless players who become gifted coaches. There is something about knowing yourself that is only discovered when you train others. That was part of the reason for my experiment to see what would happen when I trained a group with mixed levels of abilities and experience.
I found that one of the top performers had a tendency to self destruct without close man management, yet he was a gifted trader. Another thing I discovered was I could bring about an almost instant breakthrough when a trader reached a sticking point that had been a major source of frustration. It was so easy to see the problem and solution - how I wish I had received that assistance.
So some trainers can't get over the emotion and distraction of trading live, but they correctly perceive what needs to be done. Other trainers fool themselves because they think they perceive what event is happening, but they are deceived. Sim or live, you have to see it to believe it. There needs to be real proof with live entries and exits.
Many trainers can have a lot in common with confidence tricksters. They might know a bit more than you and that makes them an authority, but what they know best is how to part you from your money. I have never had an Internet business, but I remember a guru saying something like "You don't want to provide the solution. You want to provide the tools that someone believes will take them on to the next step of their dreams, Then you can resell them." A lot of what goes on for trader training is exactly that.
Is it OTA that has franchised their trader training and now losers are buying canned presentations to offer others the steps to their dreams, never mind they have never placed a trade themselves! Says a lot about the originator of this fluff.
Oh and a postscript for RN. Once was enough
I have faith that you are leading us summers. But so far my overall unpressium is that you are kvetching about how your hoped-for heroes failed you. I can relate, except that those who have failed me were women, and I am not tawking about trading. If your g'rus only made 100% PA return, I can only degree. My own standard, which I achieve munth-un-munth, is 700%. So please take us where you wunt to go, before we'uns lose unterest. No defense, but I am thinking that you are a gurl, because you tawk too much:
You talk about people
That you donât know
You talk about people
Wherever you go
You just talk
Talk too much
You talk about people
That youâve never seen
You talk about people
You can make me scream
You just talk
you talk too much
You talk about people
That you donât know
You talk about people
Wherever you go
You just talk
Talk too much
You talk about people
That youâve never seen
You talk about people
You can make me scream
You just talk
you talk too much
wow... too many noobs!
If an individual were to require a significant sum of money to train/mentor me, I would want to see them in action trading live for a decent period of time. The question to ask would be why would a highly successful trader want the distraction of training others?
There are subscription-based trading rooms available for a small monthly fee where you can observe live trading and perhaps learn to trade. I think this is a solid training option. It won't help overcome stubbornness, perfectionism, egotism, and other dangerous trader personality traits - seek out a psychologist for those - but at least the cost of the training will be small.
The best training I ever got (and still get every day) was the result of connecting with some like-minded traders on Skype and honing strategies for 6+ hours a day while actually trading.
There are subscription-based trading rooms available for a small monthly fee where you can observe live trading and perhaps learn to trade. I think this is a solid training option. It won't help overcome stubbornness, perfectionism, egotism, and other dangerous trader personality traits - seek out a psychologist for those - but at least the cost of the training will be small.
The best training I ever got (and still get every day) was the result of connecting with some like-minded traders on Skype and honing strategies for 6+ hours a day while actually trading.
spurt:
Your lack of experience re students is one of the reasons you have brought up what you are confused about.
You are correct to conclude, that for you, once is enough. It was interesting that you chose to use the word "trainer" as a way to impart trading skills and knowledge to others. Training?...lol
As far as learning to trade sucessfully, about anyone from fifth grade on up can learn the knowledge and skills successfully.
The two branches of trading come down to either fractions or geometry.
The fast track to expertise is simply building the mind by doing drills. Fast tracking may not be in your experience as yet. Drills may be familiar to you with respect to some things you learned.
For a potential trader to follow the fast track, he needs to have it mapped and laid out for him. What is attached to the map are the drills done at every station.
A fifth grader can draw you the map he followed to learn and use Arithmetic. He can do the same for how he learned to read and write.
Anyone can sit down and find out where their artistic skills and abilities reached a stopping point. Just draw a picture and determine what grade level it represents.
Trading involves connecting the dots and doing the associated fractions.
If a person wants to make 700% a year, he simply fills in the blanks on a formula to be aole to see how long he has to be in the market daily and just what percent of margin he has to pull down.
Reading the market is just like reading a story. Children do it every day.
Alphabet>>>words>>>phrases>>>sentences>>>paragraphs>>> chapters. Often illustrations are added to children's books.
Are there any children who cannot learn to read?
If you give a child a computer, he can learn anything. Then he can teach his illiterate parents how to read and do math. They chose a country; they gave all the kids computers. The kids are now teacheing their parents.
Whare do most potential traders get shafted by what they run into? No aphabet, no words, now phrases, no sentences, no chapters.
Ticks>>>bars>>>moves>>>trends>>>economics.
Do you know the alphabet?
Do you have a vocabulary?
Do you know how phrases work?
Can you see a complete thought expressed?
Can you combine thoughts of like kind on a topic?
Can you see the beginning and end of chapters?
700% a year is chicken feed until it is conpounded.
When a person is learning, he doubles his money every few weeks. He is reading the market; that's all.
So no one learned how to do phrasing or sentence structure..... lol....
Your lack of experience re students is one of the reasons you have brought up what you are confused about.
You are correct to conclude, that for you, once is enough. It was interesting that you chose to use the word "trainer" as a way to impart trading skills and knowledge to others. Training?...lol
As far as learning to trade sucessfully, about anyone from fifth grade on up can learn the knowledge and skills successfully.
The two branches of trading come down to either fractions or geometry.
The fast track to expertise is simply building the mind by doing drills. Fast tracking may not be in your experience as yet. Drills may be familiar to you with respect to some things you learned.
For a potential trader to follow the fast track, he needs to have it mapped and laid out for him. What is attached to the map are the drills done at every station.
A fifth grader can draw you the map he followed to learn and use Arithmetic. He can do the same for how he learned to read and write.
Anyone can sit down and find out where their artistic skills and abilities reached a stopping point. Just draw a picture and determine what grade level it represents.
Trading involves connecting the dots and doing the associated fractions.
If a person wants to make 700% a year, he simply fills in the blanks on a formula to be aole to see how long he has to be in the market daily and just what percent of margin he has to pull down.
Reading the market is just like reading a story. Children do it every day.
Alphabet>>>words>>>phrases>>>sentences>>>paragraphs>>> chapters. Often illustrations are added to children's books.
Are there any children who cannot learn to read?
If you give a child a computer, he can learn anything. Then he can teach his illiterate parents how to read and do math. They chose a country; they gave all the kids computers. The kids are now teacheing their parents.
Whare do most potential traders get shafted by what they run into? No aphabet, no words, now phrases, no sentences, no chapters.
Ticks>>>bars>>>moves>>>trends>>>economics.
Do you know the alphabet?
Do you have a vocabulary?
Do you know how phrases work?
Can you see a complete thought expressed?
Can you combine thoughts of like kind on a topic?
Can you see the beginning and end of chapters?
700% a year is chicken feed until it is conpounded.
When a person is learning, he doubles his money every few weeks. He is reading the market; that's all.
So no one learned how to do phrasing or sentence structure..... lol....
This is a perfect example of someone who may be totally confused about what they think they understand about trading. Or it may be the wannabe traders dream - someone with a roadmap to a fortune and a philanthropic heart to give it all away. How is the newbie to know which it is? Easy!
A charlatan says come and listen for they want to talk and talk and talk and the answer to your dreams is at the end of their rainbow. In contrast a trader says come and see for they want to trade and trade and trade. The charlatan claims they have done it. The trades does it. I don't want to train because although I found it beneficial, I achieved my objectives. There's is a bigger reason why I don't train - it doesn't pay as well as trading one day a week.
So Jack, at the moment you decide which profile you want to demonstrate... talking the talk or walking the walk. If you have something to offer, say it with a live demonstration for anyone on ET to see. If you can't do that, give us colourful excuses and keep talking, talking, talking.
Remember friends, this thread is about the problem with trainers so if you start with the acid test of a live trading demonstration you save yourself the pain of bait sucking and finding something painfully unexpected.
I don't believe a legitimate trading "school" exists. Someone correct me if you think I am wrong.
I do believe there may be a few people around who might mentor someone. The fee would either be free or so large that most wouldn't pay it because they think they can beat the price by learning it on their own. But, they most likely can't.
I do believe there may be a few people around who might mentor someone. The fee would either be free or so large that most wouldn't pay it because they think they can beat the price by learning it on their own. But, they most likely can't.