Discipline is required

[Fast-Simple]

How is discipline a limited resource?
If you can't do what you say you are going to do, you aren't going to succeed at any endevour.

Can you bench press 300 lb? If not, why not? Don't you have a bottomless supply of discipline? Just will it into existence.

Discipline is definitely a limited resource as everything in the world is. Not discipline itself, but the quantity that you can put forth in a short period of time. Yes it will replenish with rest, but how much does it take to do a job and is that a reasonable amount? If I try to hold my breath until I die, I won't be able to do it. At some point my body will decide it wants to live and will override any amount of self-discipline that I have decided to put forth. If I try to saw through my own hand, I might break the skin but then my body chemistry will change and suddenly the discipline that I had decided to muster is gone.

Traders deal with fight or flight responses. Those types of chemical changes in your body can do funny things to your brain. The better pursuit is not to increase discipline, but to decrease the occurrence of chemical changes in your body so that the discipline you do have is more than enough to do the job.

 

[deaddog]

Can you bench press 300 lb? If not, why not? Don't you have a bottomless supply of discipline? Just will it into existence.

That has do to do with my phyical strength. If it was important that I do that, my endless supply of discipline would allow me to follow a training, suppliment and steroid regiment until I was able to accomplish that feat. Or being lazy I would probably design a hydraulic lift to get the pounds where I need them to be.

Discipline is definitely a limited resource as everything in the world is. Not discipline itself, but the quantity that you can put forth in a short period of time. Yes it will replenish with rest, but how much does it take to do a job and is that a reasonable amount? If I try to hold my breath until I die, I won't be able to do it. At some point my body will decide it wants to live and will override any amount of self-discipline that I have decided to put forth. If I try to saw through my own hand, I might break the skin but then my body chemistry will change and suddenly the discipline that I had decided to muster is gone.

Quite true your body will react to your trying to harm it. However with discipline you can accomplish the end result you desire. If you want to end your life you can starve yourself to death or any other method of suicide you choose. If you want to cut your hand off, use a power saw.

Traders deal with fight or flight responses. Those types of chemical changes in your body can do funny things to your brain. The better pursuit is not to increase discipline, but to decrease the occurrence of chemical changes in your body so that the discipline you do have is more than enough to do the job.

Agreed that the emotions involved with trading do funny things to your brain. Fear & Greed rule the day. Decreasing the occurance of the chemical changes sounds good, but doesn't that require some discipline?

 

[Fast-Simple]

If it was important that I do that, my endless supply of discipline would allow me to follow a training, suppliment and steroid regiment until I was able to accomplish that feat.

So here's the problem. Almost everybody on this forum tries to use 'discipline' as a synonym of 'will power' as in "discipline to follow my system better." So I did the same. You are using it as a means of accomplishing personal development, which is the correct way to use it. OP didn't frame it that way. I would love to see a thread about "discipline to become a more capable person." That would be a good read and might actually help someone's career.
DM if you want to chat more. I like the way your mind works.

 

[PPC]

Discipline is required to become a consistently profitable trader. However, most forex traders struggle to maintain discipline while trading the markets. What should we do to become disciplined traders, and how can we change our trading behaviors to become more disciplined?

Discipline is a state of mind, and one can select to behave in a disciplined manner. That’s as simple as this, BUT then the problem arises if the trader has unresolved inner conflicts, and those inner conflicts then manifest as self-sabotaging behaviours (e.g. not following trading plan, or doing what's comfortable instead of what is necessary).

Often many traders trade strategies that do not fit their own beliefs or they don’t thoroughly and manually back-test their strategies, and then as result often these traders then don't have the necessary confidence to follow their chosen trading method. It's because authentic trading confidence comes only from deep understanding of what one is doing, If such confidence is missing, then these traders might hesitate or ignore signals for entry or exit. Ditto if it doesn’t fully resonate with their subconscious beliefs.

There can also be other subconscious factors in play, such as the obvious greed and fear, or more suble ones such as religious beliefs or lack of self-worth, etc. Mark Douglas goes deeper into these things in his old video series.

Then there is also the ‘Prospect Theory’, which basically means that we’re biologically wired to let losses run and to cut winners, which is the direct opposite of what is required for succesful trading. This becomes even harder if one is trading from home, with no accountability to a boss.

There are very few traders who are so lucky to be psychologically very sound (in addition to trading strategies that fits their beliefs), and they’ll get away with just few basic reminders on their monitors, but for the rest of us, we have to learn to think differently, and work on our psychological issues. (But nobody wants to do that, me neither.)

 

[PPC]

I’ll only add that some of the world's best traders continually work on improving themselves.

For example, Paul Tudor Jones is known to be paying more than million dollars each year to Tony Robbins to be his psychological coach.

Ed Seykota studied psychology extensively and his "tribe stuff" is all psychological.

John Henry was an extensive student of Zen Meditation, And so on, and on.

Developing deeper awareness, working on yourself and your unconscious issues is how you become consistently disciplined trader.

 

[deaddog]

So here's the problem. Almost everybody on this forum tries to use 'discipline' as a synonym of 'will power' as in "discipline to follow my system better." So I did the same. You are using it as a means of accomplishing personal development, which is the correct way to use it. OP didn't frame it that way. I would love to see a thread about "discipline to become a more capable person." That would be a good read and might actually help someone's career.
DM if you want to chat more. I like the way your mind works.

Discipline, will power, doing what you say you'll do is all the same thing as far as I'm concerned.
In a trading scenario having the discipline to stick to your plan involves will power if you are inclined to do what you deem to be comfortable, rather than what you should.
You might not be able to hold your breath until you die but you do have the ability to control your emotions, to override the fight or flight response.
To me discipline is no more than doing what you said you would do. If you just say it to your self and no one else is aware of your intentions then it's easier to change your mind somewhere down the line.
If you write your intentions down, put them on paper, for some reason you are more likely to follow through.
If you let someone else know what you plan to do, then you'll probably do it. Explaining why you deviated from your plan may be more painful than the perceived pain of following the plan.
I found that changing my focus from P&L to whether I followed my plan made a significant difference in my trading results. If I followed my plan and took a loss, this is a good trade with a bad outcome. If I deviate from my plan and end up with a profit, thats considered a bad trade. At times the market likes to reward bad behavior, sucking you in so that next time you'll pay dearly.
So call it what you'd like, discipline or will power, if you don't have it, your chances of success trading are diminished.

 

[PPC]

Back to the very basics of discipline: We all have theories about what moves the markets (when to buy/sell) and then we convert it into trading methods. What is important to remember is that these are just made-up models, and we need to accept that the market often goes in different direction then our theoretical models anticipated.

Open and flexible mind is necessary for this, which is very different mental state than 'forcing' discipline. Some people are unable to change quickly between these two mental states.

The problem arises when people are attached to their market models/theories (expectations) or their need to be right, instead of being attached to proper trading actions, i.e. following the plan and accepting that any individual trade can be a loser. Many people don’t fully accept it.

People need to change their attachments and address this gap between trading system (being just a model) and the trader’s actions. If that gap in the trader’s psyche remains, then forcing discipline is just like a temporary band-aid.

Understanding and FULLY ACCEPTING THAT THE NEXT TRADE COULD A BULLET WITH MY NAME ON IT, WILL MAKE ME VERY DISCIPLINED, NO EFFORT REQUIRED.

Unfortunately, most people have unresolved (unconscious) psychological issues which get in their way of accepting this. If that wouldn’t be the case, then discipline wouldn’t be an issue for them, but obviously it is.

 

[deaddog]

Understanding and FULLY ACCEPTING THAT THE NEXT TRADE COULD A BULLET WITH MY NAME ON IT, WILL MAKE ME VERY DISCIPLINED, NO EFFORT REQUIRED.

How so? Doesn't every trader know that the next trade will be a loser.
You put the trade on and it goes against you.
FOMO is greater than the pain of taking a small loss as planned.
You decide to give the trade a little wiggle room
It keeps moving against you.
You rationalize until you finally take a big loss or decide that this will be a good investment.
Not even politicians lie as badly as a trader who is in a losing trade lies to himself.
Understanding that I don't know what the next trade will do and knowing that over time my system will be profitable (I know my edge) makes it easier to follow my plan.
Focusing on the process rather than P&L also make it easier.

 

[PPC]

How so? Doesn't every trader know that the next trade will be a loser.
You put the trade on and it goes against you.
FOMO is greater than the pain of taking a small loss as planned.
You decide to give the trade a little wiggle room
It keeps moving against you.
You rationalize until you finally take a big loss or decide that this will be a good investment.
Not even politicians lie as badly as a trader who is in a losing trade lies to himself.
Understanding that I don't know what the next trade will do and knowing that over time my system will be profitable (I know my edge) makes it easier to follow my plan.
Focusing on the process rather than P&L also make it easier.

I didn’t understand you question “How is so?” because I do agree with what you wrote, such as focusing on the process rather than on the P/L. Every trader knows that the next trade could be a loser, but some traders don't full accept it. Subtle, but important distinction.

It's like FULLY ACCEPTING THAT THE NEXT CAR COULD HIT ME IF I'LL BE CROSSING BUSY HIGWAY. IT WILL MAKE ME VERY DISCIPLINED, NO EFFORT REQUIRED in debating whether I'll do everything possible to save my life vs laying down in the middle of the road hoping that the cars won't run over me.

Some people trade to their level of discomfort, which means they’re trading their emotions and not their system because their emotions are then determining their behaviour. It’s hard to stay disciplined in under such scenarios.

 

[Lee-me]

work on improving themselves.

Thanks for your complete reply and yes, everyone think trade is just about knowing FA and TA but you should improve yourself, work on yourself and try to be better and better.