Dire Warning About Secular Progressivism In America

Quote from pspr:

The reason I am religious isn't because I have researched phenomena and events of history or read the Bible or was brought up religiously. Although from an objective standpoint, those things would have convinced me that there is an afterlife and a supreme being.

In fact in my 20's I pretty much divorced myself from religion. I could have cared less. Then in my 30's I began to realize that the world didn't make sense to me without a higher intelligence. I had trouble trying to reconcile the fact that I was here and the universe with all it's mysteries was here and not believing in an afterlife or an intelligence of design didn't fit with that. If there wasn't an intelligent mind to appreciate the living world and the amazing universe it made no sense to me that it, or I, was here.

I couldn't bring myself to believe that at the end of everyone's life was death and that was it. That someday Earth will be destroyed and that will probably be the end of all thinking humans. That there wasn't some purpose. With out a creator or greater intelligence it seemed to me that there couldn't be a purpose. There would be no point to all the mysteries. The existence of the universe makes no sense to me if that is the case.

When I put myself in that mindset, that no God (for lack of a better word) exits then nothing makes sense to me. There is no reason for any of it. It doesn't matter if you are honest or a crook, feel compassion or don't. It doesn't even matter if you die at this moment or live for a 1000 years. None of it matters.

But there is something in the back of my mind that keeps telling me that it does matter. What I do may not have any effect on anyone in 100 years or 1000 years from now but it does matter. What people do and how they behave does matter beyond the now. And something is telling me that it will matter somewhere forever.

If Earth were destroyed tomorrow it wouldn't be the end of intelligent thought. It wouldn't be the end of our intelligent thought. That the universe isn't so mysterious and vast and that it exists just because it does. There is a reason behind it and we are an integral part of that reason.

When I think it is too preposterous to think there is a creator thoughts that nothing makes sense if that is the case come flooding back to the front of my mind and remind me of my research and the fact that things only make sense in my mind if there is something more.

So, even if I never heard of God, if I had never been able to look into historical accounts of religion and phenomena I could no more decide to believe there isn't something more, that there isn't an afterlife and a higher being, than I could just stop breathing. It's part of me and I didn't put it there.

I know that probably doesn't make sense to anyone but me but I don't know how to explain it any other way.
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So to sum it up:

You can't understand the universe and it's mysteries so it is easier to ascribe it all to God.

You could not understand how one could live ethically without God threatening hell and promising heaven so you need him.

You are afraid to die so you want to believe in God.


Those are the feelings of many people, hence there is "God".
 
I read something recently that made me change the way I think about debating a higher power with a believer.

When an atheist tells someone there is no god, they are also saying "your mom/sister/brother/dad/grandma/grandpa are not in heaven. They aren't waiting for you". The grasp of this idea is too powerful to overcome. You aren't dealing with rational thought at this point.

Maybe something to keep in mind in these threads.
 
Quote from Dustin:

I read something recently that made me change the way I think about debating a higher power with a believer.

When an atheist tells someone there is no god, they are also saying "your mom/sister/brother/dad/grandma/grandpa are not in heaven. They aren't waiting for you". The grasp of this idea is too powerful to overcome. You aren't dealing with rational thought at this point.

Maybe something to keep in mind in these threads.
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Are you saying that atheists should not try to dissuade believers because their faith comforts them? If so, I also sometimes think that is true. Perhaps the vehemence of some atheists, including myself, stems from envy of the faithful's faith. There is the thought that if I can't have the comfort of God then you can't either.

Should the ethical atheist never argue against God?
 
Quote from futurecurrents:

Are you saying that atheists should not try to dissuade believers because their faith comforts them? If so, I also sometimes think that is true. Perhaps the vehemence of some atheists, including myself, stems from envy of the faithful's faith. There is the thought that if I can't have the comfort of God then you can't either.

Should the ethical atheist never argue against God?
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I guess it depends on the person? There are close friends I won't discuss God with because it wouldn't end well. Rational vs. irrational thought is a bad mix, even when the believer knows they are irrational (ie. faith).
 
Quote from Dustin:

I read something recently that made me change the way I think about debating a higher power with a believer.

When an atheist tells someone there is no god, they are also saying "your mom/sister/brother/dad/grandma/grandpa are not in heaven. They aren't waiting for you". The grasp of this idea is too powerful to overcome. You aren't dealing with rational thought at this point.

Maybe something to keep in mind in these threads.
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Exactly. Several years ago an older lady (damn maybe about my age now) asked me if I believed in god and I answered honestly and told her no. She teared up and said she believed her dead husband and son were in heaven waiting for her. My answer was like an assult on her beliefs, even though it was a simple and courteous no. Now I'll just lie, it isn't worth the effort and I don't really care about converting anyone. Every once in a while if I'm getting preached at too hard and long I'll tell the person just to get some peace, but that doesn't happen often. I've even faked prayed with family during funerals. It just a lot more pleasant getting along.
 
Quote from futurecurrents:


Should the ethical atheist never argue against God?
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Well if Christmas and Easter ruin your peaceful enjoyment of life, I suppose so. How petty.
 
Quote from futurecurrents:

Are you saying that atheists should not try to dissuade believers because their faith comforts them? If so, I also sometimes think that is true. Perhaps the vehemence of some atheists, including myself, stems from envy of the faithful's faith. There is the thought that if I can't have the comfort of God then you can't either.

Should the ethical atheist never argue against God?
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You just basically admitted you are a, petulant/jealous human being who can not stand the site of someone else's inner peace. You are exactly the kind of sociopath that makes atheists/agnostics look bad, because you insist on proving someone else wrong,

WTF does it matter if someone thinks its real?does that persons spiritual beliefs have any effect on your life?
 
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

All the scientific minds here can't read the obvious data that's in front of them; the farther this Nation separates itself from God the worse it gets.
 
Quote from Wallet:
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

All the scientific minds here can't read the obvious data that's in front of them; the farther this Nation separates itself from God the worse it gets.
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Exactly the same philosophy communism used.
 
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