Dilemma in creating a system ...

Quote from Cheese:

Discretionary trading is in the same category as price action trading. It will not lead on to your fortune.

Consider this.
"I want to trade for a living." This is the usual unworkable horsesh*t idea repeated endlessly.
Consider this.
"I want to amass a fortune from trading".

Why are those 2 forms of enquiry so different?
If you don't start with the right enquiry, you are not going to ask the questions you need answering (in sequential development).
:)
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Is this based on the training process used for NLP?

Is this the same type of reasoning that Jack Hershey often refers to?

Can you elaborate a bit on your style of trading and how it is different than what you have read about here at ET? (I think I have asked you this elsewhere before but didn't receive an answer).

PS: My questions are an attempt to fulfill a curiousity I have about your posts. This is not meant to be a probe for an argument or anything. I'm simply interested in what you have to offer as far as ideas. Thanks.
 
Can you give an example of what you are referring to? A description of the method that contains the two?

Brooks

Quote from syswizard:

I'll chime in here:
Mech Trading is dumb, Discretionary Trading is psycho.....180 degree opposites.
If anyone can find the "sweet spot" in-between the two disciplines, then you've found the "Holy Grail".
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Quote from Cheese:

Discretionary trading is in the same category as price action trading. It will not lead on to your fortune.

Consider this.
"I want to trade for a living." This is the usual unworkable horsesh*t idea repeated endlessly.
Consider this.
"I want to amass a fortune from trading".

Why are those 2 forms of enquiry so different?
If you don't start with the right enquiry, you are not going to ask the questions you need answering (in sequential development).
:)
More...

I am curious about this also, I have always thought that trading is broadly described by two categories,


mechanical

the definition I prefer to use is a broad one, it allows trading decisions to be made on specific criteria or rules, that are always followed, either through an automated strategy or by a trader manually clicking the orders through

discretionary

again, I prefer a broad definition, trading is based on a specific criteria or rules, but which can be overridden or modified as the trader decides. In addition, I also include as discretionary trading, someone who has no specific rules and just trades each day on some sort of guesswork

But you are implying there is more to this ? There is some other trading perspective not included in either of these two definitions?
What trading approach would that be ?


"If you don't start with the right enquiry, you are not going to ask the questions you need answering (in sequential development)"

OK, please tell us then what is the right question to ask ?
 
Quote from BrooksRimes:

After many years of hard work, I have been unable to find/create a system to trade.

In some ways, deep down, I feel that trading may be too complex to systematize, so I look at discretionary trading methods. But even discretionary trading has rules. In order to "prove" that a discretionary trading method "works", you either have to do one of 3 things: trade it in real time, trade it in a simulated mode or back test it. #1 and #2 take a lot of time and then you only know how it works over a relatively short period of time.

#3 allows a test spanning years but can be difficult and in some cases near impossible to code. This also gets into all the complex and time consuming issues of optimization, avoiding curve fitting, walk-forward testing, etc. I often find that a system will work well for a given period of time but becomes unprofitable or has unacceptable low profits over a larger test. Occasionally, I have also come across systems that generate decent profits but have unacceptably large drawdowns.

I feel like I'm stuck in a rut and don't know how to get out. I have reached a certain level of competancy in coding and testing systems, but don't know how to get to the next level.

I certainly don't expect anyone to give me the results of your hard work, but assuming you are a successful system trader : ), I would appreciate any nudges into the right direction.

Brooks
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It sounds to me that you are on the right path. Only very few ever get where you are now. You definitely need more work though.

This may very well be the only GOOD nudge into the right direction that you may possibly get.

nononsense
:cool:
 
That narrows it down. I'll drive over there and start looking for him tomorrow. :-)

Quote from syswizard:

Contact a guy name Steve Cohen for further details.
He lives in Connecticut.
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No, what I said was not NLP. I guess I'm going to have to spell out the obvious difference.

Trading for a living. Here the aim is How much? You are attempting to produce a stream of sufficient profit which you wll happily extract to live on. The nature of your enquiry is to establish this stream. You will look for a way or system to produce this flow.

Amassing a fortune. Here the the aim is How big? You are attempting amass a pile of money. The nature of your enquiry is to achieve this accumulation as quickly as possible. You will search for a way to start and multiply your profit.

You might be able to see at once that the second enquiry is free from the need or desperation to produce a continuous, if haphazard, result from which you will take to live. Any net profit, your seed corn, is going to be wholly or largely spent on 'living'.

If you cannot see that there is a significant difference between one enquiry and the other, then you must continue to, if you can at all, 'trade for a living', and keep dancing to the beat of the most common phrase at Elitetrader.
 
Sounds like an interesting guy. I doubt if he's hiring and if so he's undoubtedly looking for MBAs from Wharton.

Quote from syswizard:

here's one article to give you more clues...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_A._Cohen

Stevie undoubtedly employes both an analytical component to his trading (mostly for risk management) as well as a discretionary one (mostly for his entries).
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