Thats why I put prop in quotes.
Technically I'm a 1 man prop shop, trade for my own account. But lets get real.
Differences in Retail vs Prop trading
- Thread starter DSRE
- Start date
Thats why I put prop in quotes.
Technically I'm a 1 man prop shop, trade for my own account. But lets get real.
Let's put it this way:
They are 100% making markets in spot OTC for two big aggregators that I know in person. You can believe that or not.
On the other hand, I don't know why it's so difficult to just type "DRW" and "crypto" into google, look up their website and tada: https://cumberland.io/
And if you don't believe they are into "these dodgy evil internet fake moneys" market, why would they search for a crypto trader for the weekend shift? CME closes up shop on Friday...
https://drw.com/careers/job/1329038
It's actually ridiculous how far behind this forum is when it comes to crypto assets. The biggest trading companies are hammering the shit out of retail and institutional buy side and there are still people on here who think it's all gonna be hacked or a scam
Damn...why are ET'ers always so sloppy when it comes to research...??
Last edited:
Agree with previous posts.
You don't get any "secret" knowledge, and joining prop doesn't mean you will be printing money like crazy. There is different approach, there are props that take you only if you are already successful, there are others that took trainees. Ultimately, it all comes down to whether you can figure it out yourself. Nobody will teach you how to earn money.
From personal experience about type 2:
- you have all sort of ppl caring for it to work (so as said before, risk, it, performance psychologist etc.)
- they point you in right direction, so no TA etc. (yeah, I know, let's the hellfire begin, but no one used technical analysis there, and certainly not the highest paid ones, same in others companies I know and my friends companies)
- good "leverege" (you don't care about margins, you care about your max positions size and clips)
- you have better commissions
- props have many kinds of approaches, most that I know trade more complex things, spreads, flyes etc.
- most important advantage in my opinion: other guys which whom you can exchange ideas, growing knowledge much faster
Is it possible to have it same as retail ? It is, but not for everybody in my opinion. Like, to have very good commission structure you can buy or lease (more affordable for retailers) a seat, you can for sure use some soft for risk management, if you are aware enough about why you do something etc. you don't need some super psycho coaches etc. About tech, now you can have very robust ones, just matter of money. If you have good support + some personal knowladge it can work as IT.
One thing you can't get easily is the last one, so trading buddies (but you know, not sim ballers
). And you must be resistant to 99% of garbage that is out there in internet, on YouTube, etc. So not wasting time for all that and get distracted.Of course there are modern props, more like quant shops. I'm only referring to those "old fashioned".
And ... cryptos are traded in props also
In fact many professional eyes are spotted on those, and not now, from few years.Agree with previous posts.
You don't get any "secret" knowledge, and joining prop doesn't mean you will be printing money like crazy. There is different approach, there are props that take you only if you are already successful, there are others that took trainees. Ultimately, it all comes down to whether you can figure it out yourself. Nobody will teach you how to earn money.
From personal experience about type 2:
- you have all sort of ppl caring for it to work (so as said before, risk, it, performance psychologist etc.)
- they point you in right direction, so no TA etc. (yeah, I know, let's the hellfire begin, but no one used technical analysis there, and certainly not the highest paid ones, same in others companies I know and my friends companies)
- good "leverege" (you don't care about margins, you care about your max positions size and clips)
- you have better commissions
- props have many kinds of approaches, most that I know trade more complex things, spreads, flyes etc.
- most important advantage in my opinion: other guys which whom you can exchange ideas, growing knowledge much faster
Is it possible to have it same as retail ? It is, but not for everybody in my opinion. Like, to have very good commission structure you can buy or lease (more affordable for retailers) a seat, you can for sure use some soft for risk management, if you are aware enough about why you do something etc. you don't need some super psycho coaches etc. About tech, now you can have very robust ones, just matter of money. If you have good support + some personal knowladge it can work as IT.
One thing you can't get easily is the last one, so trading buddies (but you know, not sim ballers
Of course there are modern props, more like quant shops. I'm only referring to those "old fashioned".
And ... cryptos are traded in props also
Interesting points, as a retail trader I feel like most are pointed to TA, its one of the first things you stumble upon. The other forms of analysis feel more "prop".I
prop traders get 1:10 margin
wheras retail margin is max 50% and you need $25,000 balance to daytrade..
wheras retail margin is max 50% and you need $25,000 balance to daytrade..
You know I think it's because it's easy to convince someone that TA works and to present it that way. And it looks much easier.
Who want to hear "ok, so I will teach you about correlations, about looking at yields, curves, to think in terms of cause and effect, so if thing A happened and thing B not, what then, if thing A happened and thing B happened what you expect then; to do some statistics, to observe price reactions to different events, to read ladder, and now, it's your time ! seat here and watch, every day, X hours a day and you will get it or not". Because that's how it looks like.
So it's easier to sell someone story, ok, those are magic indicators, watch it 30 min a day, and remember to send me one of your lambos when you buy third one.
People in general are lazy (in life), so they want easy way.
But there is also 1 important thing. I will give a short story. I was a dancer for many years, the reason I was very good was not because I watched tons of movies, read some books etc. (of course I did it also). But the main reason was, I was in the training hall, firstly twice a week, then three times, then 5, then 7, then going to workshops for many days, camps etc. So it was about hard work. I was also instructor, and I saw many ppl, a lot of them. Some very talented, some let's say completely disaster. But after long enough time those with not so much talent but very hard working were really good (I'm not saying they were artists but they were good craftsmen). One of my favorite students all time, was completely un-talented. But he was titan of work, and had so much heart for that. And after time he became very very good craftsman. Of course they can't compete with ppl who have talent and put hard work, but it's not always about that. It's about being best you can, to beat yourself. I also saw very talented ones, and at the beginning I told some friends "nope, they won't be great, you will see" and they weren't. It's very easy, it was easy to tell after their behavior, approach, complete lack of humility (it's good to believe in yourself, sometimes it's good to be cocky, but if you have complete lack of humility it' very bad sign). So hard work is the biggest part of success.
But there is also 1 important thing. If I take you to training hall, tell you "ok, those are the keys, you have access whenever you want, now crack it man !", it's is possible that you make it, but not so probable. So if first you have any basic knowledge, or you are pointed to right direction then that time is spent much more effective. I think that is why ppl in shops are much faster good in their craft then ppl outside. It's all about that. But they still need to do their hard work.
And there is one thing that ppl don't want to hear, so, not everybody can be a trader. This job is so unnatural that it just "can't work" with some personalities.
But from the other side, we have quant shops now, so ppl working there representing other type of personalities then old school pit traders and other then electronic screens traders. It's good to know where you fit, where is your place.
Last edited:
Interesting why such people don’t just switch to something they have natural talents for. What was his reason?
He just liked it. And in my private opinion, many times people start to dance social dances (in couples) to get few things they have lack of. Many of them are not artists that want some expression or to be master in their craft, they are there to:
- be close to other people / be part of a group
- get "closeness" (I'm not sure how to express it in English, like, people who don't have girlfriend/boyfriend or some close relation, so they have lack of this closeness)
- not think (in some ways dancing is close to meditation/mindfulness, you are just there, you, your partner, music, and that moment that is unique) / we are not talking about dancing choreography
- relax after work and have fun
- meet new people (for people that are shy or not able to just talk to someone on the street or anywhere, it's much easier in dancing society)
In that particular case I think it was combination of 1st, mostly 2nd, a bit 3rd. But he was also emotional person, hearing music quite good and expressing it very good. Just has no basics, no body preparation, no body awareness.
It is surprising how many emotional and very often smart people who are introverts are looking for "closeness" in social dancing. And for context, I live in middle Europe. (it works completely different in latin countries, and many others, other cultures, other limits of closeness in every day situations)
Question:All I can say here that prop firms have a team approach. There is the analyst, the trader, the IT guy, backoffice and risk management.
Retail thinks that all it takes to become profitable is to join a prop firm because they have some sort of secret or special strategy. In reality they only employ people who already are successful in their field. Risk is way too high, so it's not worth to learn or teach on the fly.
The main difference between retail and prop is just knowledge and skills. All you can do as a prop trader you can do as a retailer, too.
When it comes to tech advantage, a retailer can just join an arcade, post his first loss and pay the desk fee in order to enjoy commission reduction and a proper low latency infrastructure.
But you need to know how to trade first. TA isn't getting you anywhere.
BTC is probably the easiest market out there to learn since there is zero central authority intervention, the number of market moving variables and cross flows are really low, you have the full derivative range to express your views and market access doesn't cost you a fortune.
You can start market making with a 10k account, a 10$ vultr.com VPS and some python skills.
But you have to know how to trade
Do traders in prop firms day trade only or swing or position trade?
I am amateur retail, never visited or looked into a prop firm so really am clueless.
Thanks.