Did Osama Win?

A

ARealGannTrader

Difficult question to ask.

1. Launches largest terrorist attack in history on US.

2. President responds by invading Iraq and Afghanistan, creating ill will unlike America has ever seen. Hamas swept into power in palestine because of animosity to West.

3. Creates Homeland Security, and accelerates spending. Creates the Patriot Act, which rolls back individual liberties. 4000 US troops killed on top of 3000 civilians.

4. Two airlines go bankrupt, air travel much more difficult for consumer.

5. Katrina. Country takes PR black eye. Bush blamed for stretching military too thin.

6. Country lurches to left because of unpopular war, Bin Laden still at large. Taliban regains power in Afghanistan.

7. Country slips into economic crises on already depleted resources, like getting double pneumonia after a bout with stomach flu.

If the twin towers hadn't fallen that day, it stands to reason that the country might still be right of center, our borders might be more secure, and US may have more resources to deal with financial meltdown.

Where did we go wrong? What could we have done differently?

Please don't take the easy, Bush didn't have to invade Iraq. The reality is that the threat sounded credible enough for Congress and the UN to go along with it, there were other troops there with us. W admitted that he got bad intel. Did he over-react, probably. But he won, the people put him in twice. The second time he kicked Kerry's arse.

So, where did we really go wrong, were we doomed to be in this mess?

Is Bin Laden actually the one to say, Mission Accomplished?

Thoughts?
 
If he is dead, then he escaped capture from the mighty West.

If his remains are not found, then he ascended bodily into heaven. And future martyrs will sit with him in heaven.

That's why they wanted him alive.

Martyrs are very bad, they tend to last a long time to the faithful.

If Bin Laden died a free man, then he most definitely won.
 
Quote from ARealGannTrader:

If he is dead, then he escaped capture from the mighty West.

If his remains are not found, then he ascended bodily into heaven. And future martyrs will sit with him in heaven.

That's why they wanted him alive.

Martyrs are very bad, they tend to last a long time to the faithful.

If Bin Laden died a free man, then he most definitely won.
More...

Spoken like a true Osama bin Laden supporter.
 
There is a lot to be said for all your valid points, Mr. Gann. I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the invasion of Iraq as the prime catalyst for many of those realities. My contention from right after 9/11 is that we could have, and should have, pursued that gang of thugs calling themselves alquaeda, with more of a police action. We were able to outwit the Soviet Union and the KGB without trampling the Constitution and depleting our military forces. We have been combatting, although not necessarily beating, the giant drug cartels for decades with our various national and international police agencies.

Another point from the last 8 years that troubles me deeply is the giant chasm that has developed between right and left. Each side seem to feel the need to hate the other, and that in itself is letting the bad guys win. It's amazing how, those least affected by potential tax hikes, are quick respond with talking point of hate, socialism, and worse.

I remember when Americans were pretty much in the 20%-80% range, politically. Meaning 60% moderate. Versus only about, my guess, 20% true moderates or independents.

A good portion of the blame, for both sides, is of course radio and tv talking heads blathering and screaming about the other side. 9/11 and the whole world of fear, if not created by, certainly emboldened by, has been fodder for 8 straight years. Hell, we all know about the dozens of similar acts done on our home soil, by Americans, by terrorists, by thugs, and yet it was this act that has such a ripple effect, that it's hard to have a pleasant conversation when so many of us have become zealots. Rush, Coulter, Mathews, Olberman aaggh.

ET is a prime example, with all the junior high school name calling and labeling. Neo cons, wing nuts, idiot in charge, man this board must really have kids, actual kids, on it. But, with the likes of what is on tv, radio, and the web, it's easy to see where they get it.

Yes, Divide and Conquer, sad, hopefully not true.




c
 
Quote from cgroupman:

There is a lot to be said for all your valid points, Mr. Gann. I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the invasion of Iraq as the prime catalyst for many of those realities. My contention from right after 9/11 is that we could have, and should have, pursued that gang of thugs calling themselves alquaeda, with more of a police action. We were able to outwit the Soviet Union and the KGB without trampling the Constitution and depleting our military forces. We have been combatting, although not necessarily beating, the giant drug cartels for decades with our various national and international police agencies.

Another point from the last 8 years that troubles me deeply is the giant chasm that has developed between right and left. Each side seem to feel the need to hate the other, and that in itself is letting the bad guys win. It's amazing how, those least affected by potential tax hikes, are quick respond with talking point of hate, socialism, and worse.

I remember when Americans were pretty much in the 20%-80% range, politically. Meaning 60% moderate. Versus only about, my guess, 20% true moderates or independents.

A good portion of the blame, for both sides, is of course radio and tv talking heads blathering and screaming about the other side. 9/11 and the whole world of fear, if not created by, certainly emboldened by, has been fodder for 8 straight years. Hell, we all know about the dozens of similar acts done on our home soil, by Americans, by terrorists, by thugs, and yet it was this act that has such a ripple effect, that it's hard to have a pleasant conversation when so many of us have become zealots. Rush, Coulter, Mathews, Olberman aaggh.

ET is a prime example, with all the junior high school name calling and labeling. Neo cons, wing nuts, idiot in charge, man this board must really have kids, actual kids, on it. But, with the likes of what is on tv, radio, and the web, it's easy to see where they get it.

Yes, Divide and Conquer, sad, hopefully not true.




c
More...

This is the great reality. I think tho that the country does not want to be polarized, and the nation responded with the unthinkable.

Barrack Husein Obama.

Now, the question is, can he heal what was definitely the Gettysburg of our cultural civil war?
 
The hussein part is a bit disturbing, but I'll disegard it to add that I think one of the main reasons Obama did win so handily, is due to the sheer exasperation felt by so many Americans. Many of my long time Rep friends crossed over just to see if anything can be done to stop the feudal madness. The term civil war does aptly apply, and it will take some Gettysberg like healing motions to change direction. Whether it happens, we'll have to wait and see.

If slogans, labels, name-calling, and all the hate could just rest for a while, maybe, just maybe, civility could win out over civil war.

I can't seem to find it, but I'll keep looking. I saw a 20 or so question test on the web someplace that had questions that seem to be adversarial, but were, for the most part, answered the same by both sides of the aisle. Is there not more in common between Americans than what separates us?



c
 
Quote from ARealGannTrader:

Tom, if u are going to post, at least don't it do like a monkey at a typewriter.

State the case, barbarian:D
More...

I don't need to state any case. Your moronic words stated it for me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top