I think what we are seeing here is Marketsurfer trying to market himself as much as possible. He wants the clicks and denounces all other methods to switch people onto his piker subscription service (price drivers). It's sad to see. It's blatant and Baron should ban him again for it.
Did DB and the Price Action Scribblers Throw in the Towel?
- Thread starter marketsurfer
- Start date
I think what we are seeing here is Marketsurfer trying to market himself as much as possible. He wants the clicks and denounces all other methods to switch people onto his piker subscription service (price drivers). It's sad to see. It's blatant and Baron should ban him again for it.
If I got this right via surf definition that conflicts with the traditional definitions and a definition he's never used in prior conversations here at ET until I questioned such because he used the phrase "price action" (as titled of thread aimed at someone specifically) and that contradicts with a prior debate by him with price action traders that uses volume...
Pure Price Action Trader is someone that uses charts and volume.
Price Action Trader is someone that uses charts and nothing else or is someone that uses charts with fundamentals or anything that's not involved with being plotted on a chart.
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In contrast, my definition is the following that coincides with surfs prior debates in other threads over the past years.
Pure Price Action Trader is someone that does not uses charts. Instead, they use DOME, bid & ask screens, times & sales.
Price Action Trader is someone that uses charts and nothing else.
Regardless to our definition differences or changes that occurred in this thread...the psychology of a pure price action trader will be the same as the psychology of a price action trader. Just the same, the psychology of a trader that uses charts with indicators, charts with fundamentals, no charts, scalper, day trader, swing trader, forex, stocks, futures, CFDs...
The psychology is the same.
Thus, to pretend that "pure price action" traders have a different psychology is just wrong and I've never read about such from any trader psychologist articles, books or talking to one at an institutional trading firm.
I'm not talking about the "specific details" of each person because we all know everybody has different personalities...strengths and weaknesses. Yet, in general, we as traders (including surf) are the same via surf's own definition although as stated earlier that I do not agree with...trading problems is 100% about money.
I also like to propose that there's really no such thing as a "pure price action" trader, even though I'm trying to put a label on such, considering all traders have something in their trading plan that influences or has impact on their trade decisions regardless if they talk about it with others or not that has nothing to do with charts.
Last week a close friend (institutional trader) that only uses DOME, bid & ask screens made a complaint to me that the "Greece situation" and problems in China has impacted their price actions, risk management and many other things. (note: they don't decide what their risk management is going to be...the firm makes that decision).
I myself a price action day trader that uses fundamentals has the exact same view. A scribbler swing trader at ForexFactory.com has the exact same view. Another friend that trades CFDs and uses indicators...has the exact same view.
Thus, the impact of global economic events doesn't sit down and say this trader is a pure price action trader and this other trader is a price action trader...therefore, we must impact them differently...financially or psychologically.
Markets is unbias and it doesn't care about what type of trader we are. I've seen more traders do less trading, adjust position sizes, adjust risk management, do less talking at forums during this China/Greece fiasco than any other time this year.
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/01/15/u-s-trading-volume-continues-to-shrink/ (it has declined more since January and margins/debt has dramatically increased in foreign markets that past 2 months)
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-trading-volume-is-tumbling-explained-in-5-charts-2014-07-07
Markets do not care who you are nor does it care about your psychology from one trader to the next trader.
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2015/01/16/six-in-ten-retail-forex-traders-lose-money-each-quarter/
Most traders lose money...but some do not. I'm willing to bet that if all retail traders were required to pass a psychological testing prior to being allowed to trade...there will be similarities amongst the losers that differs than the similarities amongst those that are profitable.
Maybe its too much of a stretch but such a psychological profiling that's already being done at many of the top tier professional trading firms would be interesting to know the statistics.
Pure Price Action Trader is someone that uses charts and volume.
Price Action Trader is someone that uses charts and nothing else or is someone that uses charts with fundamentals or anything that's not involved with being plotted on a chart.
------------------
In contrast, my definition is the following that coincides with surfs prior debates in other threads over the past years.
Pure Price Action Trader is someone that does not uses charts. Instead, they use DOME, bid & ask screens, times & sales.
Price Action Trader is someone that uses charts and nothing else.
Regardless to our definition differences or changes that occurred in this thread...the psychology of a pure price action trader will be the same as the psychology of a price action trader. Just the same, the psychology of a trader that uses charts with indicators, charts with fundamentals, no charts, scalper, day trader, swing trader, forex, stocks, futures, CFDs...
The psychology is the same.
Thus, to pretend that "pure price action" traders have a different psychology is just wrong and I've never read about such from any trader psychologist articles, books or talking to one at an institutional trading firm.
I'm not talking about the "specific details" of each person because we all know everybody has different personalities...strengths and weaknesses. Yet, in general, we as traders (including surf) are the same via surf's own definition although as stated earlier that I do not agree with...trading problems is 100% about money.
I also like to propose that there's really no such thing as a "pure price action" trader, even though I'm trying to put a label on such, considering all traders have something in their trading plan that influences or has impact on their trade decisions regardless if they talk about it with others or not that has nothing to do with charts.
Last week a close friend (institutional trader) that only uses DOME, bid & ask screens made a complaint to me that the "Greece situation" and problems in China has impacted their price actions, risk management and many other things. (note: they don't decide what their risk management is going to be...the firm makes that decision).
I myself a price action day trader that uses fundamentals has the exact same view. A scribbler swing trader at ForexFactory.com has the exact same view. Another friend that trades CFDs and uses indicators...has the exact same view.
Thus, the impact of global economic events doesn't sit down and say this trader is a pure price action trader and this other trader is a price action trader...therefore, we must impact them differently...financially or psychologically.
Markets is unbias and it doesn't care about what type of trader we are. I've seen more traders do less trading, adjust position sizes, adjust risk management, do less talking at forums during this China/Greece fiasco than any other time this year.
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/01/15/u-s-trading-volume-continues-to-shrink/ (it has declined more since January and margins/debt has dramatically increased in foreign markets that past 2 months)
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-trading-volume-is-tumbling-explained-in-5-charts-2014-07-07
Markets do not care who you are nor does it care about your psychology from one trader to the next trader.
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2015/01/16/six-in-ten-retail-forex-traders-lose-money-each-quarter/
Most traders lose money...but some do not. I'm willing to bet that if all retail traders were required to pass a psychological testing prior to being allowed to trade...there will be similarities amongst the losers that differs than the similarities amongst those that are profitable.
Maybe its too much of a stretch but such a psychological profiling that's already being done at many of the top tier professional trading firms would be interesting to know the statistics.
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No to mention his being a big supporter of Larry Williams, who has a shady past, as attested to by the NFA. For what it's worth, LW pushed whatever was popular at the time, including TA, to sell as many books and seminars to as many people as were willing to part with their money. And surf can't say enough good things about LW...
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Marketsurfer's own description of himself. The last word sums it up.
"small time hedge fundee, journalist, trader, economist, provocateur"
"small time hedge fundee, journalist, trader, economist, provocateur"
You know, they probably have a cream for that itch.
PTJ has repeatedly said that, although he may look at others things, at the end of the day he follows price. Price is the bottom line. Are you saying he's lying?
A few notable quotes:
http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index.php?threads/some-notable-quotes-by-paul-tudor-jones.292622/
I don't see any contradictions in what i say and believe about using price action to make trading decisions.
these semantic arguments are moronic. Particullarly when i am the only "known" entity doing the arguing against unknown aliases.
The bottom line is that its very clear that the scribbler/ straight line trading method does not function to provide any edge in the way it is described by the proponents of the method on elite trader.
The argument has nothing to do with tape reading ( which provided sn edge at one time)
Back to the topic-- did the scribblers throw in the towel due to the recent volatility since their method is flawed?
Please drop the PTJ 30 year old " wisdom", rips on larry williams, appeals to authority, and personal attacks.
Thanks. Surf
these semantic arguments are moronic. Particullarly when i am the only "known" entity doing the arguing against unknown aliases.
The bottom line is that its very clear that the scribbler/ straight line trading method does not function to provide any edge in the way it is described by the proponents of the method on elite trader.
The argument has nothing to do with tape reading ( which provided sn edge at one time)
Back to the topic-- did the scribblers throw in the towel due to the recent volatility since their method is flawed?
Please drop the PTJ 30 year old " wisdom", rips on larry williams, appeals to authority, and personal attacks.
Thanks. Surf
Words to live by.
Larry williams is a marketer first, trader second. There is no better way to "sell" then to use TA. Its a great descriptive tool.
I am friends with larry and his family although hyperbolic in marketing-- he and Michelle are hyper succesful and very nice in real life.
A funny story, i was at a debate between larry and vic niederh&ffer in central park before a great italian dinner-- larry was almost crying after VN got through with him about TA. But it ended with them being good friends.
surf
30-year-old wisdom? I would suggest it's timeless. Even so, please check the date at the bottom:
...second, and last.