in my opinion --- yes
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Designing your subconscious state
- Thread starter Riskmanager
- Start date
in my opinion --- yes
Quote from darkhorse:
...But rewiring deeply ingrained mental patterns is a very different thing than a pep talk. If you've been afraid of snakes all your life, you can't dissolve the fear by hyping yourself up or lying to yourself. The process is one of contemplation and understanding, where you focus on the issue with enough depth and detail to deliberately influence a whole host of patterns in your neocortex. In this manner, the fear can be dissolved rather than overcome. A dedicated process of understanding can thus enable new patterns that displace and destroy the old ones. Again, not magic. Just an understanding of how the mind works.
The process is painstaking because your neocortex doesn't respond to verbal commands. It doesn't "know" which patterns are good or bad, which connections to pay attention to, which connections to add or remove. That's why there is so much effort involved. It's also why I am skeptical of the instant-healing claims of NLP. If your fear of snakes is a physical thing -- that is, an actual configuration of patterns held in place by electrical tracers within your brain -- then you cannot remove that fear instantly, and neither can anyone else... because no one, including you, has direct access to the interlocking mesh of patterns that created that fear in the first place. It's not a matter of saying "I think I'll change my mind now," even if you really, really want it to be. You have to get in there and dig for the unexpected connections, which is done via contemplation and rationally directed thought process. The process of positive change and the process of self-discovery are one and the same.
darkhorse, the process of 're-writing' phobias - in essence, getting rid of them - does not necessarily involve "contemplation and understanding". For some it may and that is how they will overcome their phobia. But for many hypnotherapy is the alternative that is fast, lasting and painless. It doesn't so much overcome or dissolve the phobia as it changes the state of the person - from one debilitated by fear to one armed with pragmatic caution.
It doesn't have to be painstaking because it is possible to re-write the programming of the brain through a meta program, if you will. This is what NLP is all about btw. Of course, it is necessary then to know this meta programming language.
Some do know it and they seem to possess magical powers - I suppose this is what primitive cultures called voodoo or black magic or medicine men.
I've seen this done and it is not a fairy tale. I've seen a person who hates onions and never eats them under any condition - raw, cooked, etc.. after hypnosis, take a peeled onion and bite it and eat it like an apple. I've seen a person who is deathly afraid of snakes and will be distraught at the sight of a snake's picture, wear a python around her neck like so much jewelery.
Contemplation and rational thinking will only get you so far because there are huge hidden barriers that our minds put up (anachronistic protection mechanisms). A different approach is needed if you want to remove them and advance.
The human mind is the most astonishing thing there is. We have not yet begun to scratch the surface in understanding how it works and what latent potentialities lie inside it.
As for what is possible and impossible - if history has taught us one thing it is that the impossible is only that which has yet to be achieved by the power of the human mind.
Quote from Babak:
I've seen this done and it is not a fairy tale. I've seen a person who hates onions and never eats them under any condition - raw, cooked, etc.. after hypnosis, take a peeled onion and bite it and eat it like an apple. I've seen a person who is deathly afraid of snakes and will be distraught at the sight of a snake's picture, wear a python around her neck like so much jewelery.
Contemplation and rational thinking will only get you so far because there are huge hidden barriers that our minds put up (anachronistic protection mechanisms). A different approach is needed if you want to remove them and advance.
Yes, I've heard of such tales also. I don't doubt they are true -- I just question the long term effectiveness of such short term manipulation.
The eating of onions and wearing of snakes reminds me of an old Reuters story about a rabbit with a chemical imbalance that had become wildly aggressive, chasing dogs, cats and even people out of the yard in an effort to defend its turf. It is certainly possible to trick the brain, or dramatically alter mood and possibility, or induce some vivid Walter Mitty sequence, but how effectively does that translate into true and healthy renewal of the whole person?
In contrast, I have seen the guided contemplation process at work, and I have seen its permanent / long-lasting effects in people close to me -- going from two zoloft a week to none over the course of a year, that sort of thing.
There may be real value in hypnosis, I don't deny that -- especially when it comes to debilitating phobias. But in most instances you get what you pay for, and I am as leery of shortcuts in big picture mental processes as I am in trading. It would seem that hypnosis is a specialized tool that applies well to localized areas. That is a different kettle of fish than changing from a loser into a winner, or taking a sick worldview and rebuilding it as a healthy one.
In my opinion, a strong and healthy mind is the product of a strong and healthy world view (given all the right chemical ratios etc). The more complexity and nuance that one's desired worldview must have, the more care must be taken in building it. In this sense, one's worldview is a product of study and experience. I don't see how you could hypnotize or trick someone into being experienced, or build the critical mass of internal connections for them.
I suggest that, in its ability to induce temporary states of suspended belief or altered belief, hypnosis is far more of a blunt instrument, focused on one set of behaviors at a time, than the intricate device needed for broad and deep change.
I could be completely wrong of course. But even if so, I think most folks are better off seeking understanding, with a desire to put deep effort into their transformation process, than they are dreaming of some instant fix if they could only read the right book or sign up with the right therapist. 'Designing your subconscious state' should be more like solving a Rubik's cube than finding a holy grail.
Dark Horse,
A very well reasoned post. And I would agree with the underlying view that in many cases a quick fix will not be a fix.
Would you entertain the view that in some/many/afew cases all that is required is a quick fix to get past a block and allow a natural evolution to good trading? Or even past 2 blocks?
In that case hypnosis, brief therapy, or some "simple" technique may overcome the issue(s).
A very well reasoned post. And I would agree with the underlying view that in many cases a quick fix will not be a fix.
Would you entertain the view that in some/many/afew cases all that is required is a quick fix to get past a block and allow a natural evolution to good trading? Or even past 2 blocks?
In that case hypnosis, brief therapy, or some "simple" technique may overcome the issue(s).
Not sure about the quality or quanity of research, but as I recall when I was using Sound & Light machines (a few years ago) the consensus seemed to be that it was the lights that did most of the "entraining" (synchronizing the brain frequency w/that of the machine). In my experience I found this to be true. Also, used consistently, the calming relaxation effects of the S&L sessions carried over into my everyday life, much as meditation can do (which it is, actually).There is plenty of research regarding brain wave entrainment using binaural beat frequencies.
But the best tool for this kind of thing, w/o a doubt, is the float tank. You can achieve levels of profound physical relaxation in an hour that otherwise would take weeks of diligent practice by other means. Your body just seems to disappear, you're just "consciousness". It's absolutely one of the most amazing experiences I've ever had.
Harold
Quote from mhashe:
Does anyone have a good reference for a self paced NLP course from beginner to advanced?
Do yourself a favor and research this.
Take a look at the history (advent) and development in order that you may understand what it is all about.
Then, at that point, you may be able to understand that a formal rather than an informal approach may benefit you the most.
I also recommend that you approach the opportunity that you have discovered from a formal learning viewpoint that would lead to credentials.
I am not suggesting that you practise using your knowledge but just that obtaining it on that level of training is the more valuable thing to do.
What you get is roughly priceless.
When you look at the stages people go through learning to realize their potential, you see just how wide the spectrum of possibilities really is.
For a person approaching investing and trading, the traverse across the spectrum is about 8 doublings of effectiveness and efficiency.
An adjunct to the above is being knowledgable about hypnosis. Follow a similar path.
In both cases, you get to aplace where you are able to refrain from the series of trapsin which people inevitably, by ignorance, mire themselves.
Once you have this spectrum of awareness and consciousness, you are able to build the workarounds you need to successfully remeiate the permenant stuff that you have built into your system previously. There is no possibility of replacing things; that is a myth. You do work arounds as you will soon find out.
Dear Riskmanager,
I haven't taken the time to review every post, so my apologies if this has already been mentioned.
The effect you experienced may well be an indication of an internal auditory track which usually is playing under your consicous attention.
Of the three primary mental modalities (seeing, hearing,feeling) hearing (auditory) tends to be the most energy sapping and draining. By playing the same thing over and over, what you may have done, quite literally, is to drown out a bunch of negative internal auditory.
There are many ways to do this, taking less time also. One interesting exercise is to run the the modalities consciously. Each modality has a different accessing state, so hold your head straight forward, move your eyes (only your eyes) up and see pictures. Nothing in particular, just whatever pops in. Then, move eyes striaght forward and listen, inside or outside (internal or external). Finally, eyes down and feel what you feel. This little excersie should take about 30 sec's to a minute. Do it several times a day. Over a period of several months of doing this you may notice some fairly miraculous shifts.
Another way to drown internal auditory is through listening to several stories at once. At one of the workshops I do, we have groups of 5 or 6 people, all telling a different story to someone, at the same time. What happens is you just tune out the auditory and what's left is peaceful. Dr. Glauberman has hypnosis tapes that do just this, he speaks a different story in each of the two stereo tracks.
I haven't taken the time to review every post, so my apologies if this has already been mentioned.
The effect you experienced may well be an indication of an internal auditory track which usually is playing under your consicous attention.
Of the three primary mental modalities (seeing, hearing,feeling) hearing (auditory) tends to be the most energy sapping and draining. By playing the same thing over and over, what you may have done, quite literally, is to drown out a bunch of negative internal auditory.
There are many ways to do this, taking less time also. One interesting exercise is to run the the modalities consciously. Each modality has a different accessing state, so hold your head straight forward, move your eyes (only your eyes) up and see pictures. Nothing in particular, just whatever pops in. Then, move eyes striaght forward and listen, inside or outside (internal or external). Finally, eyes down and feel what you feel. This little excersie should take about 30 sec's to a minute. Do it several times a day. Over a period of several months of doing this you may notice some fairly miraculous shifts.
Another way to drown internal auditory is through listening to several stories at once. At one of the workshops I do, we have groups of 5 or 6 people, all telling a different story to someone, at the same time. What happens is you just tune out the auditory and what's left is peaceful. Dr. Glauberman has hypnosis tapes that do just this, he speaks a different story in each of the two stereo tracks.
Quote from LookAtThat:
Dark Horse,
A very well reasoned post. And I would agree with the underlying view that in many cases a quick fix will not be a fix.
Would you entertain the view that in some/many/afew cases all that is required is a quick fix to get past a block and allow a natural evolution to good trading? Or even past 2 blocks?
In that case hypnosis, brief therapy, or some "simple" technique may overcome the issue(s).
Sure. If therapy or hypnosis etc. can release a blockage that was impeding progress, that can certainly be beneficial. Removing a critical obstacle from the path allows for further travel down the path.