DeSantis for the win

[Tsing Tao]

Once again you desperately cling to a couple of information points that are two months old while ignoring all the other information in the AARP report showing Florida's nursing homes performing poorly in terms of COVID compared to the rest of the nation including:

• Nursing homes with confirmed cases - Florida is worse than the U.S. average - 33.7% versus U.S. 25.7% (four weeks)
• Nursing homes with confirmed staff cases - Florida is worse that the U.S. average - 61.1% versus U.S. 52.6% (four weeks)

An there are many other data points in the report that you should evaluate -- yet you only focus on two charts -- knowing that death charts related to Florida will show a decline at the end due to their under-reporting of COVID deaths in recent weeks.

I'm the one desperately clinging? What matters is the number of people who die from the disease. I don't care how many staff get the virus, or how many cooks get it, or how many cleaning people get it, so long as they don't die from it. If you want to cherry pick the numbers and say things like "Florida has the worst infection population of gardeners in the country!" then that's on you. I care about one thing - how many people died.

So unless you can show me where more people are dying (adjusted for population, of course) as a result of policies in Florida, you don't have an argument. It's really that simple. You can claim all these opinions about how poor policy is driving results, but that's all it is. A claim. There's no data to support it is any worse here than other places where the virus is raging. I'm happy with you making claims, but don't state it as fact.

At the same time you ignore that many local Florida news reports in recent days showing the dire situation in Florida's nursing homes. Let's provide an example once again:

COVID infections surge in Florida nursing homes. Hialeah home leads state with 69 deaths
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article247430840.html

All the things that DeSantis claimed that Cuomo did wrong with nursing homes, DeSantis is doing... and worse. All of them against public health recommendations to "protect the vulnerable". These include:

• Placing COVID positive patients in nursing homes. Which was so disastrous they had to stop by the end of October in Florida. Yet DeSantis still prattles on about Cuomo doing this.
  
• Cutting funding to test staff and patients in nursing homes.
• Allowing families to come visit nursing homes and hug the patients.
• Allowing families to take patients home and return them with no COVID testing.

I tend to ignore the sensationalist media that does nothing but promote fear and doom and drive a narrative, yes.

It's time for you to admit that DeSantis is not "protecting the vulnerable" in Florida from COVID. His "herd immunity" policies are not effective and poorly guided. His policies have not helped Florida's economy which still lags the nation in economic performance and employment.

You have yet to prove this. Oh, you've spammed away at the editorial side, but until you can show that DeSantis is the cause of the data being worse here than elsewhere, you're just shit out of luck.

 

[Ricter]

Death is not a sufficient nor the sole measure. Being sick for weeks or months counts, too. And so does permanent organ damage. And those are a lot more prevalent than the former, and likely the reason so many people are taking it very seriously, more so than Desantis.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Death is not a sufficient nor the sole measure. Being sick for weeks or months counts, too. And so does permanent organ damage. And those are a lot more prevalent than the former, and likely the reason so many people are taking it very seriously, more so than Desantis.

I've asked this of gwb many times, but since you decided to wade in to the discussion I'll ask it of you as well. Do you have an empirical study that shows that permanent organ damage arriving from COVID is worse than the rate of such damage from normal, garden variety pneumonia (viral or otherwise) or severe flu? Not articles claiming it. Those are a dime a dozen. Peer-reviewed studies.

Because if you're going to say COVID is worse long term, I am guessing you have backup to that assertion.

Likewise, if you are going to make the claim DeSantis is so much worse than other governors, you need to show the data behind what makes you say this. Oh, you can feel he is much worse. You can remain in the subjective and hate the guy because he is on the right, or that he supported Trump at one point, or you don't like his hair (I don't), but if you want to draw a conclusion to actions he has made, you need to show how some data is worse than elsewhere to correlate DeSantis to it. I'm open if you wish to proceed.

 

[Ricter]

I've asked this of gwb many times, but since you decided to wade in to the discussion I'll ask it of you as well. Do you have an empirical study that shows that permanent organ damage arriving from COVID is worse than the rate of such damage from normal, garden variety pneumonia (viral or otherwise) or severe flu? Not articles claiming it. Those are a dime a dozen. Peer-reviewed studies.

I don't give a fuck about that way of looking at it because it's added on top of garden variety flu, which we have a vaccine for.

 

[gwb-trading]

I've asked this of gwb many times, but since you decided to wade in to the discussion I'll ask it of you as well. Do you have an empirical study that shows that permanent organ damage arriving from COVID is worse than the rate of such damage from normal, garden variety pneumonia (viral or otherwise) or severe flu? Not articles claiming it. Those are a dime a dozen. Peer-reviewed studies.

Because if you're going to say COVID is worse long term, I am guessing you have backup to that assertion.

Likewise, if you are going to make the claim DeSantis is so much worse than other governors, you need to show the data behind what makes you say this. Oh, you can feel he is much worse. You can remain in the subjective and hate the guy because he is on the right, or that he supported Trump at one point, or you don't like his hair (I don't), but if you want to draw a conclusion to actions he has made, you need to show how some data is worse than elsewhere to correlate DeSantis to it. I'm open if you wish to proceed.

There are multiple studies on COVID "long haulers" under-weigh as outlined in this Nature article. There is certainly enough medical evidence that there are numerous long-term COVID health issues -- however it takes time for complete studies on these issues.

The lasting misery of coronavirus long-haulers
Months after infection with SARS-CoV-2, some people are still battling crushing fatigue, lung damage and other symptoms of ‘long COVID’.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02598-6

 

[Tsing Tao]

I don't give a fuck about that way of looking at it because it's added on top of garden variety flu, which we have a vaccine for.

Ok, so no data. Thank you for your opinion.

 

[Tsing Tao]

There are multiple studies on COVID "long haulers" under-weigh as outlined in this Nature article. There is certainly enough medical evidence that there are numerous long-term COVID health issues -- however it takes time for complete studies on these issues.

The lasting misery of coronavirus long-haulers
Months after infection with SARS-CoV-2, some people are still battling crushing fatigue, lung damage and other symptoms of ‘long COVID’.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02598-6

This isn't what I asked for. I asked for a comparison. None such exists. So stating that there is lasting misery of some people from COVID is no different than stating some people have lasting misery from any other pneumonia, etc.

Thanks for the article.

Any time you have actual data showing that DeSantis is doing such harm to Florida in a way that isn't occurring (again, data) in other states, we can talk about correlation of the actions to the data.

 

[Ricter]

Ok, so no data. Thank you for your opinion.

This is more posing, and condescending at that, as the superior reasoner. The tone of Randroids and Objectivists everywhere.

 

[Tsing Tao]

This is more posing, and condescending at that, as the superior reasoner. The tone of Randroids and Objectivists everywhere.

Take it for whatever you wish. You inserted yourself in a discussion GWB and I have been having for...240 pages or so? Into battle you suddenly leapt, caring not for whether you had additional actual ordinance to deploy, but instead became "me too" to gwb's "big dog". I wanted to see if you had actual data to apply to the discussion. You did not. You hate DeSantis, and have feelings as to what he is doing. I can respect that.

 

[gwb-trading]

This isn't what I asked for. I asked for a comparison. None such exists. So stating that there is lasting misery of some people from COVID is no different than stating some people have lasting misery from any other pneumonia, etc.

Thanks for the article.

Any time you have actual data showing that DeSantis is doing such harm to Florida in a way that isn't occurring (again, data) in other states, we can talk about correlation of the actions to the data.

Once again.... and this was discussed before... It makes no sense to create a comparison of two diseases that have totally different symptoms. You are requesting nonsense information that a medical study will never be done for -- because it serves no purpose and will never be funded.

If you are going to deflect on the basis on "asking for a comparison" is just absurd. As outlined in the Nature article there are many medical studies underway and completed showing information on COVID long-haulers.