Denise Shull Says Tape Reading Art is Real and Alive

Quote from marketsurfer:

what happens if the success is the result of wrong actions? happens all the time. surf
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It won't last long then. But having said that, the only objective measure of trader's success is profit (or maybe more detailed, profit in relation to other factors, such as drawdown, risk taken etc.).
 
Quote from cornixforex:

It won't last long then. But having said that, the only objective measure of trader's success is profit (or maybe more detailed, profit in relation to other factors, such as drawdown, risk taken etc.).
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Your premise is wrong. Perhaps ones success is despite of something, rather than due to it.

surf
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

Your premise is wrong. Perhaps ones success is despite of something, rather than due to it.

surf
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Perhaps. But there's a good saying "winners are not judged". If something (doesn't matter just the belief or a real edge) makes person good trader, why second guess it and try to fix what works?
 
Quote from cornixforex:

Jack,

Impressive job on NLP in relation to trading. I agree that "wrong" beliefs cannot be erased, in my experience the only way to cope with them is substitute them with experience of success.
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Not to be contrary but "wrong" beliefs can indeed be dealt with - once one understands how the brain really works.

The emphasis on cognitive (thinking) and behavioral - or the cognitive approach to behavior - has obscured how the real basis of perception and judgment is in the senses, feelings and emotions. Once you make those explicit and treat them as data, the "wrong" beliefs begin to evaporate.
 
Quote from cornixforex:

It won't last long then. But having said that, the only objective measure of trader's success is profit (or maybe more detailed, profit in relation to other factors, such as drawdown, risk taken etc.).
More...

history is filled with traders who have made huge scores due to pure luck-- just like any pseudo random based reward system. You and the other TA believers simply can not deal with randomness, therefore you build a false construct to make things appear orderly-- breaking this down will be your first step to understanding how markets really work. Until then, your market view is based on delusion-- with any success attributed to money management techniques. see tharp, niederhoffer and Gallacher for further info.

surf
 
Quote from denisekshull:

Thank you for your serious reply.

I have not however EVER appeared at the Traders Expo in Las Vegas. I have appeared at the NYC Traders Expo courtesy of the CME Group in 2007 and 8. The first of which was actually the CBOT and I moderated a panel with John Netto, John Carter and another trader. In 2010 I gave a live talk again at NYC Traders Expo which was replicated by a private individual and put on YouTube.

Maybe you are thinking of a private trading group? I did once speak in Vegas for the trading educator ATW. That would have been in the fall of 2006 and yes that probably was my first in-person event. You were a student then I take it?

To set the record straight, I was finishing my Master's degree and beginning a PhD in Neuropsychology in 1994 when I became at a trader at one of the first prop firms - ETG Group started by Bob Kanter. I then moved to Schonfeld and was next invited to manage a desk in NYC for Bright by Eddie - then a partial owner of Bright.

I ended up managing two desks in NYC (not for Bright) and then when my father was ill, returned to trading my own money. I was invited to rewrite my Master's thesis for academic publication and it became obvious that the conventional wisdom of trading psychology was indeed a large part of the problem in people's success - i.e. when you are working with the wrong model of the brain, you are bad to be bad at the thing you are trying to do.

My first article was published in SFO in 2004, a second in 2005 and by 2006 Mirus Futures and then the CBOT (before the merger) began asking me to speak publicly. I have had the honor, privilege and mostly delight to work with the small guys and hedge fund traders with billions of dollars.

I believe you know I have a book now. Market Mind Games is the title and the entirety of the reviews on Amazon speak for themselves.

Kindly take the above into account in your future characterizations of my knowledge and experience.

Thank you in advance,
Denise
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It was Vegas and it was 2006. Thank you for being more specific on the context.

In 2006, I guess you could say I was a student. I started using brownlines for peniclling charts at the beginning. I drew the master for making blank brown lines before that.

I turned down a faculty position at the Jung Institute in '67 (Jim Pope was CEO.)


You might have worn green, blue or green/blue.

Thank you for your reply.
 
Quote from jack hershey:

It was Vegas and it was 2006. Thank you for being more specific on the context.

In 2006, I guess you could say I was a student. I started using brownlines for peniclling charts at the beginning. I drew the master for making blank brown lines before that.

I turned down a faculty position at the Jung Institute in '67 (Jim Pope was CEO.)


You might have worn green, blue or green/blue.

Thank you for your reply.
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- in case anyone is interested in Denise's book:

http://www.amazon.com/Market-Mind-G...r=8-1&keywords=denise+shull+market+mind+games
 
Quote from Option_Attack:

http://www.worldcat.org/search?q=au:John+T+Hershey&qt=hot_author
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I'd rather you had not done that.

This could lead to those endless scholarly lists like NTIS where they hand out numbers in batches of up to 6 at a time.

Liz went on a jag on the beach in HI ordering copies of out of print books up for resale. Some of the prices get to 10X the original. Ugh!!!!

If you ever get just one, get the feral dog studies. Gangs of competing feral dogs replicate almost pefectly international rivalry. You may have heard some financial agregations compete......lol Dogs beat Adam Smith, too.
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

history is filled with traders who have made huge scores due to pure luck-- just like any pseudo random based reward system. You and the other TA believers simply can not deal with randomness, therefore you build a false construct to make things appear orderly-- breaking this down will be your first step to understanding how markets really work. Until then, your market view is based on delusion-- with any success attributed to money management techniques. see tharp, niederhoffer and Gallacher for further info.

surf
More...

I have a 3 ring called "polish sheets". It is also titled "The Book on How the Market Works". It is subtended by 28 more 3 rings.

I should post here a chapter that expresses why predicting is not a requirement of trading. The randomness concept is also buried.

OODA is the CW framework that generates all this long term memory you keep dredging up. Did you figure out why fighter pilots do not use TA? John Boyd made a multifeedback system for fighter pilots and qwuants applied it to your randomness.

Making money at 20 to 25% a year is like what happens before lunch when MADA is used.

We suggest to you that "you always know you know".

Deduction proves OODA is untrue as a market betting system.

Granularity of variables makes ALL market systems finite math problems. Therefore, by deduction, there is NO betting ever required.

Can you figure out from algebra how simultaneous equations work?

Count the market variables. Write this down as a number.

That is the number of simultaneous equations you need if you only use those variables as mentioned in OODA.

There are four questions.

The first one has been posted and answered. What maths is used to do the operation of the market? Ans: finite.

Monitor.....Analyze.....Decide.....Act....(MADA, 1957) This replaces the OODA of CW.

The emotions are: support, comfort and confidence.... WHY?

Answer: because, for all the events, "you know that you know".

BUT you know all the "time" it is "random". The emotions that come with your life are: fear, anxiety and anger. WHY?

You do NOT "know that you know".

You are a not head. Get he NLP picture.
 
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