Dems find a way to Lose...AGAIN
- Thread starter CaptainObvious
- Start date
The problem with your thought is that Koreans and Japanese and the French and Germans value life. Militant Islamist do not.
Good luck on that democracy thing though
Good luck on that democracy thing though
Militant Islamists are but a fraction of that society, we should not abandon them all for a few rotten apples. But we shouldn't do the whole job ourselves either - just help THEM handle their own criminals. I've worked with Iraqis, Syrians and Saudis before, they are fine people with a painful past, like many other groups.
They may be but a fraction of the society but they cause a hugely disproportionate amount of harm. This is evidenced by the "Brain Drain" and flight and pilgrimage from Iraq to Sryia and Iran by their respective sects.
Your average disaffected German kid is not gonna blow himself up at the local coffee house. Your loser no-life or prospects Koreans kid is not gonna charge head long into the mine fields of the DMZ.
IMO ...The naivete of those who advocate a continued hemorrhaging of America's blood and treasure for the sake of some Iraqi paradise is laughable....almost criminal.
Your average disaffected German kid is not gonna blow himself up at the local coffee house. Your loser no-life or prospects Koreans kid is not gonna charge head long into the mine fields of the DMZ.
IMO ...The naivete of those who advocate a continued hemorrhaging of America's blood and treasure for the sake of some Iraqi paradise is laughable....almost criminal.
Let's keep this civil shall we?
You are just giving the central argument of the isolationists in this country, the group that has essentially taken over the left wing of the Democratic Party. It's an argument that I respect, but with which I totally disagree. Abandon Iraq like we abandoned Vietnam, and let millions and millions suffer and die? That's not America as I know it, we care for human life and for freedom and peace in the world.
Not that we have to fight every war for every country, but using our strength to help stabilize that extremely vital part of the world and global economy is, imo, a very worthwhile goal.
I'm being civil...it'll be obvious when I'm not.
But let's stop with comparisons to Vietnam....that whole debacle was based on the "domino-theory" of each successive country falling to communism. which proved to be complete bullshit anyway. And speaking of isolationist why in the flying fuck did we care if some dipshit little country 13K miles from home went communist(rhetorical..no need to answer)?
My question to you is would you have supported this war had the stated goals now of democracy and a free Iraq had existed then and been articulated by the fathers of this clusterfuck in the spring of 2002?
Be honest.
But let's stop with comparisons to Vietnam....that whole debacle was based on the "domino-theory" of each successive country falling to communism. which proved to be complete bullshit anyway. And speaking of isolationist why in the flying fuck did we care if some dipshit little country 13K miles from home went communist(rhetorical..no need to answer)?
My question to you is would you have supported this war had the stated goals now of democracy and a free Iraq had existed then and been articulated by the fathers of this clusterfuck in the spring of 2002?
Be honest.
Quote from Yannis:
Let's keep this civil shall we?
You are just giving the central argument of the isolationists in this country, the group that has essentially taken over the left wing of the Democratic Party. It's an argument that I respect, but with which I totally disagree. Abandon Iraq like we abandoned Vietnam, and let millions and millions suffer and die? That's not America as I know it, we care for human life and for freedom and peace in the world.
Not that we have to fight every war for every country, but using our strength to help stabilize that extremely vital part of the world and global economy is, imo, a very worthwhile goal.
I'm always honest
As a matter of fact I never wanted this war, because I don't want any war, period, for my own religious/moral reasons.
But, I also think that this war is no worse than Afghanistan, Korea, or WWII - it, fundamentally, has the same rationale: to build a better/safer world for our kids. In theory. Unfortunately, wars have a way to always go bad.
As a matter of fact, I heard very similar words out of our leaders' mouths back then - topple the Taliban and Saddam, free Afghanistan and Iraq, and help introduce democracy in that important but volatile part of the world. They argued about it and then most of them signed the bills. Many of us sent in counter-arguments but to no avail.
It may sound strange, but, I also believe that now that we are deeply in it, I don't think that we should pack up and go because I'm afraid that what happened in Eastern Europe after WWII and in Vitnam in 1975-1976 will also happen here: millions and millions of victims. We started this operation and we should stay there enough to finish it. The life of an Iraqi child is worth the same as the life of an American child, and I have two of them, American children I mean, God bless them. Not that we have the same responsibility for them like we have for our own, but, c'mon, don't abandon them now that we messed the whole place up! That's the extent of my agreement with McCain on this issue, now.
PS. The market's closed and I need to go - have a great evening.
Ok ...first I like your honestly and I respect your conviction.
My problem is that I was screaming to to roof-tops of how bad this of an idea this war was six month before the American populace bit off on it. I could see plain as day through Bush's bullshit I knew what was coming. Sucks for me.
1) your thought of building a better safer world......To me that should occur at home. The 800 BILLION of sunk costs that we've pissed away would have been more than enough to fund any sort of green power intitive. Stupid waste of money that could have set America up for it Engery needs in perpetuity. Then the OPEC nations are sucking dick for beer money. But that make too much sence right?
2) Do you wrap yourself in cloak of conservatism? Because I'm having a hard time with your advocation of continued intervention in forging wars.
This is not conservatism....this interventionist liberalism. If you wanna save the children...join the peace corp already. Don't oblige the American Military and Treasury to a Mission Creep Nation Building endeavor.
3)Not a trader are you? I keep hearing about ...no matter how we got there now we have to stay until "victory." A trader would cut his lose and move on and live to fight another day.
Best
My problem is that I was screaming to to roof-tops of how bad this of an idea this war was six month before the American populace bit off on it. I could see plain as day through Bush's bullshit I knew what was coming. Sucks for me.
1) your thought of building a better safer world......To me that should occur at home. The 800 BILLION of sunk costs that we've pissed away would have been more than enough to fund any sort of green power intitive. Stupid waste of money that could have set America up for it Engery needs in perpetuity. Then the OPEC nations are sucking dick for beer money. But that make too much sence right?
2) Do you wrap yourself in cloak of conservatism? Because I'm having a hard time with your advocation of continued intervention in forging wars.
This is not conservatism....this interventionist liberalism. If you wanna save the children...join the peace corp already. Don't oblige the American Military and Treasury to a Mission Creep Nation Building endeavor.
3)Not a trader are you? I keep hearing about ...no matter how we got there now we have to stay until "victory." A trader would cut his lose and move on and live to fight another day.
Best
Quote from Yannis:
I'm always honest
As a matter of fact I never wanted this war, because I don't want any war, period, for my own religious/moral reasons.
But, I also think that this war is no worse than Afghanistan, Korea, or WWII - it, fundamentally, has the same rationale: to build a better/safer world for our kids. In theory. Unfortunately, wars have a way to always go bad.
As a matter of fact, I heard very similar words out of our leaders' mouths back then - topple the Taliban and Saddam, free Afghanistan and Iraq, and help introduce democracy in that important but volatile part of the world. They argued about it and then most of them signed the bills. Many of us sent in counter-arguments but to no avail.
It may sound strange, but, I also believe that now that we are deeply in it, I don't think that we should pack up and go because I'm afraid that what happened in Eastern Europe after WWII and in Vitnam in 1975-1976 will also happen here: millions and millions of victims. We started this operation and we should stay there enough to finish it. The life of an Iraqi child is worth the same as the life of an American child, and I have two of them, American children I mean, God bless them. Not that we have the same responsibility for them like we have for our own, but, c'mon, don't abandon them now that we messed the whole place up! That's the extent of my agreement with McCain on this issue, now.
PS. The market's closed and I need to go - have a great evening.