What I'm against is the history of voter suppression efforts on the part of Republicans in whatever creative form it might take in any particular election cycle. That punk has cried wolf one time too many.
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Democrats Dismiss Voter-Fraud Worries, but Reality Intrudes
- Thread starter Tom B
- Start date
Once again, it is no one's position that there is no voter fraud. The argument is whether there is enough to justify throwing out the baby with the bath water, i.e. making it too difficult for the poor and marginalized to vote in order to catch a low incidence of fraud. Complicating the argument is the fact that the poor tend to vote democrat, so there is a higher ROI for reps on chasing fraud, but that is a separate issue.So, your position is that there is no voter fraud; and, you are against voter ID.
If we don't like the social, economic, and political ramifications of having a two-tier society where the poor outnumber the rich 99 to 1, don't have a two-tier society where the poor outnumber the rich 99 to 1. (Note, ratio not to be taken literally, but to make a point.)
Are you also against voter ID in Canada? Or, as usual, are you just trolling again?What I'm against is the history of voter suppression efforts on the part of Republicans in whatever creative form it might take in any particular election cycle. That punk has cried wolf one time too many.
Requiring a voter ID would not marginalize voters.Once again, it is no one's position that there is no voter fraud. The argument is whether there is enough to justify throwing out the baby with the bath water, i.e. making it too difficult for the poor and marginalized to vote in order to catch a low incidence of fraud. Complicating the argument is the fact that the poor tend to vote democrat, so there is a higher ROI for reps on chasing fraud, but that is a separate issue.
If we don't like the social, economic, and political ramifications of having a two-tier society where the poor outnumber the rich 99 to 1, don't have a two-tier society where the poor outnumber the rich 99 to 1. (Note, ratio not to be taken literally, but to make a point.)
What I'm against is the history of voter suppression efforts on the part of Republicans in whatever creative form it might take in any particular election cycle. That punk has cried wolf one time too many.
What I'm against is the history of vote fraud efforts on the part of Democrats in whatever creative form (i.e. "the dead can vote") it might take in any particular election cycle. That punk has cried wolf one time too many.
You can find out easily enough using a google search how citizenship and residency is determined in States with motor voter laws, if you are interested in facts.So federal judges at the behest of democrats will not even allow a state to determine if prospective voters are citizens or force them to produce minimal ID, but they would allow a state to require them to set up a secure online account? Doubtful.
Some form of ID is already required. Tightly constricted guidelines on what constitutes acceptable ID, along with reduced voting hours and reduced polling places, are simply gaming the system to shut out the marginal who don't drive, aren't in school, and often work retail.Requiring a voter ID would not marginalize voters.
Some form of ID is already required. Tightly constricted guidelines on what constitutes acceptable ID, along with reduced voting hours and reduced polling places, are simply gaming the system to shut out the marginal who don't drive, aren't in school, and often work retail.
Well, isn't that a shame...The way I see it is that since 9/11, the onus of proving one's identity in order to procure a driver's license has become a major ordeal...(Mind you, this occurs in very "blue states" as well as "red states"). In other words, an American citizen has to show many forms of identification just to stand in line for a driver's license...
That "proof of identification" is required for just about anything and everything we do..The notion that there should be a lower burden to cast a vote is inane...but I wouldn't expect anything less from the party of fraud and the low info voting bloc...
Our old fashioned and obsolescent methods of registering voters and our failure to keep voter rolls current probably allow some small amount of voter fraud to occur. It would only be in extremely close races where this would affect outcome. Nevertheless we ought to do what we can to make our elections fair. Frankly, I am far more concerned about gerrymandering of congressional districts, which is done by both parties whenever they get a chance, and is a far more insidious, and significant threat to election fairness than voter fraud.. Right now it is the Republicans that are the culprits. They have packed huge numbers of democrats into a few districts. But the Democrats have been equally guilty in the past. In my view, we desperately need a case brought to the Supreme court, on equal protection grounds, and get rid of this gerrymandering once and for all. But let's wait until we have nine justices.
If we could get Citizens United reversed and kill off gerrymandering, we could for the first time in all of our memories elect the legislative branch of the Federal government with less influence from special interests, somewhat less lying, and democratically. There would then be at least a modicum of truth to our claim that at the Federal Level we are a democratic Republic. At present there is virtually no truth in that claim, as of the three branches of government only part of one branch, the Senate, is elected democratically.
If we could get Citizens United reversed and kill off gerrymandering, we could for the first time in all of our memories elect the legislative branch of the Federal government with less influence from special interests, somewhat less lying, and democratically. There would then be at least a modicum of truth to our claim that at the Federal Level we are a democratic Republic. At present there is virtually no truth in that claim, as of the three branches of government only part of one branch, the Senate, is elected democratically.
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Many states like California require no ID. There was a bipartisan committee headed by James Baker and Jimmy Carter. They recommended requiring a voter ID card. A voter ID would make it more difficult to commit election fraud; and, more difficult to deny a person the right to vote.Some form of ID is already required. Tightly constricted guidelines on what constitutes acceptable ID, along with reduced voting hours and reduced polling places, are simply gaming the system to shut out the marginal who don't drive, aren't in school, and often work retail.