Democracy and Aggression

ShoeshineBoy · Apr 13, 2004

Quote from Error 404:

I forgot to ask. While what you say is true, why would we want to do that?

Suggested movie: "The Mouse That Roared".

Peace,
RS

We wouldn't want to do that, which again is my point. But if a "Hitler" could ever sieze control of our military - then watch out Canada and Mexico!

What I was actually getting at was the fact that what Bush seems to be doing is forcing democracy on a previously authoritarian regime. I was merely exploring the morality/plauibility of that concept and I'm wondering if any of the international elites are exploring this political philosophy as well...Just curious if someone had read something...

And I'll look up the flick...

ShoeshineBoy · Apr 13, 2004

Again, I ask what other hope for any peace do we have in this world other than some form of democracy in each country? Can't we assume that all the majority of common people want in most countries is some form of democracy?

Madison · Apr 13, 2004

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

I heard someone make the statement that a democracy has never been the aggressor in an (unprovoked) military attack of another nation?

Iraq?

Error 404 · Apr 13, 2004

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Again, I ask what other hope for any peace do we have in this world other than some form of democracy in each country? Can't we assume that all the majority of common people want in most countries is some form of democracy?

Yes, I agree with your entire premise. I was only trying to demonstrate that the words themselves were too simplistic. But I admit to being struck by the same comment that you were in whatever post we both saw it in.

Credit to whoever wrote it.

And it is a powerful argument for the spread of democracy. In a truly democratic world, it would seem not unreasonable to have true world peace.

Unfortunately, this Utopian scenario does not seem to be in our immediate future.

And the THC was just a joke. I was last in a dorm almost 40 years ago. (When smoking was fashionable, and we could smoke cigarettes in all the classrooms except some chemistry labs).

Peace,

RS

Lucrum · Apr 13, 2004

I don't mind being corrected if I'm wrong but didn't the US of A (a democracy) aggressively "steal" much of the continental US from the native american indians who were certainly here first? Didn't we in effect steal Texas from Mexico? And how about Puerto Rico and the Philippines. Were they not taken from Spain?

No agenda here. Just stating what I think are facts.

fxtrading · Apr 13, 2004

i think the statement is a democracy has never or virtually never been at war with another democracy. where as democracy vs nondemocracy has occured and nondemocracy vs nondemocracy has occured.

democracy definded as regular elections for the most powerful government positions, competitive political parties, near universal franchise, secret balloting, and civil liberties and political rights (human rights).

war is defined as greater then 1000 deaths

check out graph at right below top menu system
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MIRACLE.HTM

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DP.IS_WHAT.HTM

ShoeshineBoy · Apr 13, 2004

Quote from Madison:

Iraq?

Actually, I don't think Bush is going in to take over Iraq though or even make it a U.S. puppet. Again, if we were authoritarian, we'd go in and put in a puppet government and militarily suppress them. (Of course, this would not work medium or long term, but tyrants don't care about what works...)

I think he's going in mostly to see democracy spread through the region (and to a certain extent for oil and defense interests). The questions are: is this wise? is it moral? will it work?

ShoeshineBoy · Apr 13, 2004

Quote from Error 404:

Unfortunately, this Utopian scenario does not seem to be in our immediate future.

Well, that's where I was going with it. I cannot imagine our world surviving as we know it unless we democritize the Islamic world...

This gave me hope that at least there is a potential non-Big Brother solution out there.

ShoeshineBoy · Apr 13, 2004

Quote from fxtrading:

i think the statement is a democracy has never or virtually never been at war with another democracy. where as democracy vs nondemocracy has occured and nondemocracy vs nondemocracy has occured.

democracy definded as regular elections for the most powerful government positions, competitive political parties, near universal franchise, secret balloting, and civil liberties and political rights (human rights).

war is defined as greater then 1000 deaths

check out graph at right below top menu system
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MIRACLE.HTM

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DP.IS_WHAT.HTM

Looks like very interesting links. I'm at work now so I can't read 'em, but I will later...

ShoeshineBoy · Apr 13, 2004

Quote from fxtrading:

i think the statement is a democracy has never or virtually never been at war with another democracy. where as democracy vs nondemocracy has occured and nondemocracy vs nondemocracy has occured.

democracy definded as regular elections for the most powerful government positions, competitive political parties, near universal franchise, secret balloting, and civil liberties and political rights (human rights).

war is defined as greater then 1000 deaths

check out graph at right below top menu system
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MIRACLE.HTM

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DP.IS_WHAT.HTM

Fantastic site!! Thx so much!!

This shows how democritization has caught favor with many of the elite (Warren Christopher, etc.). I struggle with seeing anything good coming out of the Clinton era, but he apparently was the first to article this theory and so perhaps that will be one of his few lasting positive legacies.

Anyway, one great point after another if you ask me. I think it holds great promise and gives me a little hope for the future...

This quote is great: "Democracies have not only not made war on each other, but they also have, by far, the least foreign violence, domestic collective violence, and democide (a much greater killer than war by several orders of magnitude). That is, democracy is a general cure for political or collective violence of any kind--it is a method of nonviolence. This is truly a democratic peace."

But now here's the next obvious questions: should we be intervening to militarily promote democritization? Or should we just let tyranny around the slowly fall, a la the USSR/Berlin Wall? Will tyranny ever fall w/o military intervention from free states?