Definition of Atheism

[Wallet]

Quote from vhehn:

i take it you believe in these gods too. their scriptures testify to their existence. if no why not. if you dismiss any one of these gods you are an atheist in their eyes:

It seems to me like there are an awful lot a Christians out there that seem absolutely positive that Jesus is, of course, unique and the first of his kind. They are unaware that the myth of their Christ is similar to several other god-men myths. Here are some of those other mythical god-men that Jesus, the Christian Messiah, apparently shares roots with. Does anything about these Gods that predate the christian God sound familiar? Think about these the next time you read the bible and ask yourself why do Gods that predate christianity have the same attributes as biblegod.
Of course the answer is very clear if you open your mind to the truth. Christianity is a mismash of earlier religions that borrowed its myths from earlier gods. Here is a list of some earlier gods. Does anything sound familiar:
Zoroaster/Zarathustra
--Zoroaster was born of a virgin and “immaculate conception by a ray of divine reason.”
--He was baptized in a river.
--In his youth he astounded wise men with his wisdom.
--He was tempted in the wilderness by the devil.
--He began his ministry at age 30.
--Zoroaster baptized with water, fire and “holy wind.”
--He cast out demons and restored the sight to a blind man.
--------------------------------------------
Mithra of Persia

--Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25 in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds bearing gifts.
--He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
--He had 12 companions or disciples.
--Mithra’s followers were promised immortality.
--He performed miracles
------------------------------
Attis of Phrygia

--Attis was born on December 25 of the Virgin Nana.
--He was considered the savior who was slain for the salvation of mankind.
--His body as bread was eaten by his worshippers
--His priests were “eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven.”
--He was both the Divine Son and the Father.
--On “Black Friday,” he was crucified on a tree, from which his holy blood ran down to redeem the earth.
--------------------------------------------

Dionysus/Bacchus

Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger.
--He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
--He “rode in a triumphal procession on an a##.”
--He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
--Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25.
--He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
--He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.”
--He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.”
--He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
--His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
----------------------------------------
Horus/Osiris of Egypt


In the Egyptian myth, Horus and his once-and-future Father, Osiris, are frequently interchangeable, as in “I and my Father are one.” Concerning Osiris, Walker says:

Of all savior-gods worshiped at the beginning of the Christian era, Osiris may have contributed
more details to the evolving Christ figure than any other. Already very old in Egypt, Osiris was
identified with nearly every other Egyptian god and was on the way to absorbing them all. He
had well over 200 divine names. He was called the Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods.
He was the Resurrection and the Life, the Good Shepherd, Eternity and Everlastingness, the god
who “made men and women to be born again.” Budge says, “From first to last, Osiris was to the
Egyptians the god-man who suffered, an died, and rose again, and reigned eternally in heaven.
------------------------------------------------
Osiris’s “son” or renewed incarnation, Horus, shares the following in common with Jesus:

--Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Merion December 25 in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
--His earthly father was named “Seb” (“Joseph”).
--He was of royal descent.
--At at 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized having disappeared for 18 years.
--Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by “Anup the Baptizer” (“John the Baptist”), who was decapitated.
--He had 12 desciples, two of who were his “witnesses” and were named “Anup” and “Aan” (the two “Johns”).
--He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”), from the dead.
--Horus walked on water.
--His personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.” He was thus called “Holy Child.”
--He delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”
--Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
--He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
--He was also the “Way, the Truth, the Light,” “Messiah,” “God’s Anointed Son,” “the “Son of Man,” the “Good Shepherd,” the “Lamb of God,” the “Word made flesh,” the “Word of Truth,” etc.
--He was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish (“Ichthys”), Lamb and Lion.
--He came to fulfill the Law.
--Horus was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One.”
--Like Jesus, “Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years.”
-------------------------------------------
Krishna of India

The similarities between the Christian character and the Indian messiah Krishna number in the hundreds, particularly when the early Christian texts now considered apocrypha are factored in. It should be noted that a common earlier English spelling of Krishna was “Christna,” which reveals its relation to “Christ.” Also, in Bengali, Krishna is reputedly “Christos,” which is the same as the Greek for “Christ” and which the soldiers of Alexander the Great called Krishna. It should be further noted that, as with Jesus, Buddha and Osiris, many people have believed and continue to believe in a historical Krishna. The following is a partial list of the correspondences between Jesus and Krishna:
--Krishna was born of the Virgin Devaki (“Divine One”) on December 25.
--His earthly father was a carpenter, who was off in the city paying tax while Krishna was born.
--His birth was signaled by a star in the east and attended by angels and shepherds, at which time he was presented with spices.
--The heavenly hosts danced and sang at his birth.
--He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.
--Krishna was anointed on the head with oil by a woman whom he healed.
--He is depicted as having his foot on the head of a serpent.

Yeah and there's only one that turned the world upside down and causes so much debate today.... Jesus

Wonder why that is?

 

[peilthetraveler]

Quote from vhehn:

of course they will not match perfectly.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr1.htm

From the exact same site....

Errors in Graves' book:
Due either to carelessness, or the primitive knowledge of religious history in the late 19th century, it appears that Graves made some errors in his book. He reported that:

Both Krishna and Yeshua were born on December 25. Actually, Krishna is traditionally believed to have been born during August. The festival Janmashtami is held in honor of this birth.
The birth day of Jesus is unknown, but is believed by many to have also been about August during some year between 4 and 7 BCE.
December 25th was chosen for Christmas to coincide with a pre-existent Pagan Roman holiday, Saturnalia. December 25th was also recognized in ancient times as the birth day of various other god-men such as Attis and Mithra. All were linked to the winter solstice, which occurs about DEC-21.

Jesus' and Krishna's mothers were holy virgins: Actually, the virginal state of Mary when she conceived Jesus is a matter of debate. Paul and the author(s) of the Gospel of John appear to directly reject the concept. The author of the Gospel of Mark appears to have been unaware of it. The authors of Matthew and Luke accepted the belief. Christians today are divided.
The virginal state of Devaki is also a matter of debate. One tradition states that Krishna was her eighth child. Another states that it was a virgin birth: "In the context of myth and religion, the virgin birth is applied to any miraculous conception and birth. In this sense, whether the mother is technically a virgin is of secondary importance to the fact that she conceives and gives birth by some means other than the ordinary....the divine Vishnu himself descended into the womb of Devaki and was born as her son Krishna." 11

Jesus' and Krishna's mothers had similar names: Miriam (Mary) and Maia In reality, Krishna's mother may have been referred to as Maia, but only because this is the Hindi word for "mother." His mother's actual name was Devaki; his foster mother's name was Yashoda.


If you are going to use those sites to prove your point, maybe you better read them yourself first.

 

[peilthetraveler]

anyways...all these attacks on Christianity still dont change the fact of the original point of this thread...that you believe nothing exploded into everything and then that everything for no reason magically rearranged itself.

You've gotta come up with something more credible than that if you want everyone to become atheists. I wonder why atheists believe in such nonsense in this day & age of technological advancement?

 

[smilingsynic]

Quote from Wallet:

Yeah and there's only one that turned the world upside down and causes so much debate today.... Jesus

Wonder why that is?

The popularity of a religion or idea has nothing whatsoever to do with its veracity.

Indeed, in terms of logic, Christianity is indeed bankrupt. An "empty" wallet, if you will.

 

[peilthetraveler]

Quote from smilingsynic:

The popularity of a religion or idea has nothing whatsoever to do with its veracity.

Indeed, in terms of logic, Christianity is indeed bankrupt. An "empty" wallet, if you will.

Yeah...no logic whatsoever. Things like honoring your parents, not killing people, not stealing, not having affairs with your neighbors wife...those are all outdated morals. No logic in adhering to those old pesky rules when its so much fun and puts so much a feeling of power in your hands when you can break rules like that.

Very empty wallet.

 

[jem]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

From the exact same site....

Errors in Graves' book:
Due either to carelessness, or the primitive knowledge of religious history in the late 19th century, it appears that Graves made some errors in his book. He reported that:

Both Krishna and Yeshua were born on December 25. Actually, Krishna is traditionally believed to have been born during August. The festival Janmashtami is held in honor of this birth.
The birth day of Jesus is unknown, but is believed by many to have also been about August during some year between 4 and 7 BCE.
December 25th was chosen for Christmas to coincide with a pre-existent Pagan Roman holiday, Saturnalia. December 25th was also recognized in ancient times as the birth day of various other god-men such as Attis and Mithra. All were linked to the winter solstice, which occurs about DEC-21.

Jesus' and Krishna's mothers were holy virgins: Actually, the virginal state of Mary when she conceived Jesus is a matter of debate. Paul and the author(s) of the Gospel of John appear to directly reject the concept. The author of the Gospel of Mark appears to have been unaware of it. The authors of Matthew and Luke accepted the belief. Christians today are divided.
The virginal state of Devaki is also a matter of debate. One tradition states that Krishna was her eighth child. Another states that it was a virgin birth: "In the context of myth and religion, the virgin birth is applied to any miraculous conception and birth. In this sense, whether the mother is technically a virgin is of secondary importance to the fact that she conceives and gives birth by some means other than the ordinary....the divine Vishnu himself descended into the womb of Devaki and was born as her son Krishna." 11

Jesus' and Krishna's mothers had similar names: Miriam (Mary) and Maia In reality, Krishna's mother may have been referred to as Maia, but only because this is the Hindi word for "mother." His mother's actual name was Devaki; his foster mother's name was Yashoda.


If you are going to use those sites to prove your point, maybe you better read them yourself first.

Paul and john reject the concept? that would be news to millions of Christians...

Care cite the passages.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

anyways...all these attacks on Christianity still dont change the fact of the original point of this thread...that you believe nothing exploded into everything and then that everything for no reason magically rearranged itself.

You've gotta come up with something more credible than that if you want everyone to become atheists. I wonder why atheists believe in such nonsense in this day & age of technological advancement?

i think education is winning out over superstitious beliefs. all that is required is for your generation to die off:

Atheism is the fastest growing religious identity in America
Posted by Joshua Claybourn on 18 March 2006 | 12 responses
The San Antonio Express-News reports the following:


A study done by the Graduate Center of the City University of New York found that the percentage of the population that describes itself as “nonreligious” more than doubled from 1990 to 2001, from 14.3 million to 29.4 million people. The only other group to show growth was Muslims. . .

 

[stu]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

Yeah...no logic whatsoever. Things like honoring your parents, not killing people, not stealing, not having affairs with your neighbors wife...those are all outdated morals. No logic in adhering to those old pesky rules when its so much fun and puts so much a feeling of power in your hands when you can break rules like that.

Very empty wallet.

Yeah... things like honoring your parents....


Luke 14:
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 10:
34. "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."

The Bible is full of such reprehensible examples for killing offending tribes, stealing their property and taking their wives for pleasure.


Why would you use preposterous biblical fairy stories which contain such vile hatred, contradiction and ridiculous superstition as a basis for determining moral standards?

 

[Wallet]

Quote from stu:

Yeah... things like honoring your parents....


Luke 14:
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 10:
34. "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."

The Bible is full of such reprehensible examples for killing offending tribes, stealing their property and taking their wives for pleasure.


Why would you use preposterous biblical fairy stories which contain such vile hatred, contradiction and ridiculous superstition as a basis for determining moral standards?

This is yet another example of people who haven't a clue or understanding, taking text out of context.

 

[stu]

Quote from Wallet:

This is yet another example of people who haven't a clue or understanding, taking text out of context.

If you mean not having a clue or understanding is to condemn the Bible for what it says and not be an apologist for the thing in attempting to defend the indefensible, then so be it.

Do you likewise consider the actual words text and descriptions in Mein Kampf are taken out of context by people who haven't a clue or understanding when they condemn that book for what it says ?

It would be every bit as straightforward and logical for you to be an apologist for those words too, should you ever try to defend and justify being a Nazi.