Definition of Atheism

Quote from vhehn:


It seems to me like there are an awful lot a Christians out there that seem absolutely positive that Jesus is, of course, unique and the first of his kind. They are unaware that the myth of their Christ is similar to several other god-men myths. Here are some of those other mythical god-men that Jesus, the Christian Messiah, apparently shares roots with. Does anything about these Gods that predate the christian God sound familiar? Think about these the next time you read the bible and ask yourself why do Gods that predate christianity have the same attributes as biblegod.
Of course the answer is very clear if you open your mind to the truth. Christianity is a mismash of earlier religions that borrowed its myths from earlier gods. Here is a list of some earlier gods. Does anything sound familiar:
Zoroaster/Zarathustra
--Zoroaster was born of a virgin and “immaculate conception by a ray of divine reason.”
--He was baptized in a river.
--In his youth he astounded wise men with his wisdom.
--He was tempted in the wilderness by the devil.
--He began his ministry at age 30.
--Zoroaster baptized with water, fire and “holy wind.”
--He cast out demons and restored the sight to a blind man.
--------------------------------------------
Mithra of Persia

--Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25 in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds bearing gifts.
--He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
--He had 12 companions or disciples.
--Mithra’s followers were promised immortality.
--He performed miracles
------------------------------
Attis of Phrygia

--Attis was born on December 25 of the Virgin Nana.
--He was considered the savior who was slain for the salvation of mankind.
--His body as bread was eaten by his worshippers
--His priests were “eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven.”
--He was both the Divine Son and the Father.
--On “Black Friday,” he was crucified on a tree, from which his holy blood ran down to redeem the earth.
--------------------------------------------

Dionysus/Bacchus

Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger.
--He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
--He “rode in a triumphal procession on an a##.”
--He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
--Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25.
--He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
--He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.”
--He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.”
--He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
--His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified.
----------------------------------------
Horus/Osiris of Egypt


In the Egyptian myth, Horus and his once-and-future Father, Osiris, are frequently interchangeable, as in “I and my Father are one.” Concerning Osiris, Walker says:

Of all savior-gods worshiped at the beginning of the Christian era, Osiris may have contributed
more details to the evolving Christ figure than any other. Already very old in Egypt, Osiris was
identified with nearly every other Egyptian god and was on the way to absorbing them all. He
had well over 200 divine names. He was called the Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods.
He was the Resurrection and the Life, the Good Shepherd, Eternity and Everlastingness, the god
who “made men and women to be born again.” Budge says, “From first to last, Osiris was to the
Egyptians the god-man who suffered, an died, and rose again, and reigned eternally in heaven.
------------------------------------------------
Osiris’s “son” or renewed incarnation, Horus, shares the following in common with Jesus:

--Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Merion December 25 in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
--His earthly father was named “Seb” (“Joseph”).
--He was of royal descent.
--At at 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized having disappeared for 18 years.
--Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by “Anup the Baptizer” (“John the Baptist”), who was decapitated.
--He had 12 desciples, two of who were his “witnesses” and were named “Anup” and “Aan” (the two “Johns”).
--He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”), from the dead.
--Horus walked on water.
--His personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.” He was thus called “Holy Child.”
--He delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”
--Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
--He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
--He was also the “Way, the Truth, the Light,” “Messiah,” “God’s Anointed Son,” “the “Son of Man,” the “Good Shepherd,” the “Lamb of God,” the “Word made flesh,” the “Word of Truth,” etc.
--He was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish (“Ichthys”), Lamb and Lion.
--He came to fulfill the Law.
--Horus was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One.”
--Like Jesus, “Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years.”
-------------------------------------------
Krishna of India

The similarities between the Christian character and the Indian messiah Krishna number in the hundreds, particularly when the early Christian texts now considered apocrypha are factored in. It should be noted that a common earlier English spelling of Krishna was “Christna,” which reveals its relation to “Christ.” Also, in Bengali, Krishna is reputedly “Christos,” which is the same as the Greek for “Christ” and which the soldiers of Alexander the Great called Krishna. It should be further noted that, as with Jesus, Buddha and Osiris, many people have believed and continue to believe in a historical Krishna. The following is a partial list of the correspondences between Jesus and Krishna:
--Krishna was born of the Virgin Devaki (“Divine One”) on December 25.
--His earthly father was a carpenter, who was off in the city paying tax while Krishna was born.
--His birth was signaled by a star in the east and attended by angels and shepherds, at which time he was presented with spices.
--The heavenly hosts danced and sang at his birth.
--He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.
--Krishna was anointed on the head with oil by a woman whom he healed.
--He is depicted as having his foot on the head of a serpent.
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smilingsynic has requested the following"

'...1) When you cut and paste material from some other source, please cite the source, as an honest person would..."

If the above is the work of your hand and research Vhehn, then please accept my apology.
 
Quote from Barth Vader:

smilingsynic has requested the following"

'...1) When you cut and paste material from some other source, please cite the source, as an honest person would..."

If the above is the work of your hand and research Vhehn, then please accept my apology.
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i would hope you are asking because you are really interested in the truth of your religion. probably not.

http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/godmen.html
 
Quote from Barth Vader:


[...]
Allow me to make an even easier example for you:

Let us say that a person has a daughter.
That daughter grows up and marries.
The daughter then gets pregnant and has a son.

This woman has three distinct functions:
She is a daughter
She is a wife
She is a mother

All of these functions emanate from the same person, but each function is a distinct act, not interchangeable with each other.

The role of "daughter" cannot (or should not in our human morals) be also the role of "wife" to her father.
[...]
More...



But she is a women, a wife, a mother, so isn't that a bad example?
Are you saying God is a father, a son , a holy ghost?

Many women are wives and mothers and daughters. So by your example there will be many Gods who are sons and holy ghosts too.



Also is it the role of a father to have his son killed so a father might have everyone worship them, or should that be a distinct function not "in our human morals"?
 
Quote from vhehn:

Christianity is a mismash of earlier religions that borrowed its myths from earlier gods. Here is a list of some earlier gods. Does anything sound familiar:

--Krishna was born of the Virgin Devaki (“Divine One”) on December 25.
--His earthly father was a carpenter, who was off in the city paying tax while Krishna was born.
--His birth was signaled by a star in the east and attended by angels and shepherds, at which time he was presented with spices.
--The heavenly hosts danced and sang at his birth.
--He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.
--Krishna was anointed on the head with oil by a woman whom he healed.
--He is depicted as having his foot on the head of a serpent.
More...

You went to a site that outright lied about those facts. Thats what people who dont want to believe in God do. They make stuff up to try to discredit the bible because there is no evidence. A simple wiki search of one of them totally says something different.

"Traditional belief based on scriptural details and astrological calculations gives the date of Krishna's birth, known as Janmashtami,[29] as either 18 or 21 July 3228 BCE.[30][31][32] Krishna belonged to the royal family of Mathura, and was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki, and her husband Vasudeva"

So the birth date was in july, not dec 25, came from a royal family, not a carpenters family, and its hard to be born of a virgin when you are the EIGHTH son.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna#Birth

Go check other sites for the rest of them now. I suspect you wont though. You will most likely just leave it alone and try to come up with some other site that cant verify its facts.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sVBy602la4s&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sVBy602la4s&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 
Quote from peilthetraveler:

You went to a site that outright lied about those facts. Thats what people who dont want to believe in God do. They make stuff up to try to discredit the bible because there is no evidence. A simple wiki search of one of them totally says something different.

"Traditional belief based on scriptural details and astrological calculations gives the date of Krishna's birth, known as Janmashtami,[29] as either 18 or 21 July 3228 BCE.[30][31][32] Krishna belonged to the royal family of Mathura, and was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki, and her husband Vasudeva"

So the birth date was in july, not dec 25, came from a royal family, not a carpenters family, and its hard to be born of a virgin when you are the EIGHTH son.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna#Birth

Go check other sites for the rest of them now. I suspect you wont though. You will most likely just leave it alone and try to come up with some other site that cant verify its facts.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sVBy602la4s&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sVBy602la4s&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
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of course they will not match perfectly. myths are handed down in verbal form and every generation they get changed. to deny the pagan and earlier gods influence on christianity is to hide your head in the sand. almost every myth in the bible can be found in some earlier religion or pagan ritual.

"Implications of points of similarity between the lives of Jesus and Krishna:
Krishna is the second person of the Hindu Trinity. He is considered to be one of the incarnations of the God Vishnu. Some Hindus believe that he lived on Earth during perhaps the 2nd or 3rd century BCE. However, "Traditional belief based on scriptural details and astrological calculations gives Krishna's birth" year as 3228 BCE. 12 Yeshua of Nazareth is generally regarded as having been born in Palestine circa 4 to 7 BCE. Thus, if there are many points of similarities between these two individuals, most skeptics and some religious liberals would accept that elements of Krishna's life were incorporated into the legends associated with Jesus rather than vice-versa.

Other reasons for the similarities between Jesus and Krishna's life stories on Earth have been suggested which are more acceptable to conservative Christians who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, in the inspiration of the Bible's authors by God, and in the belief that Jesus is God's only son and the world's only savior:

Legends of Krishna's life are lies which Satan created to discredit Christianity in advance of Jesus' birth.
The similarities in the two lives are simple coincidences.
Krishna's life was a type of prophecy foretelling the arrival of the Christian Messiah.



Correspondences between events in Jesus' and Krishna's life:
Author Kersey Graves (1813-1883), a Quaker from Indiana, compared Yeshua's and Krishna's life. He found what he believed were 346 elements in common within Christiana and Hindu writings. 1 That appears to be overwhelming evidence that incidents in Jesus' life were copied from Krishna's. However, many of Graves' points of similarity are a real stretch.

He did report some amazing coincidences:

#6 & 45: Yeshua and Krishna were called both a God and the Son of God.
7: Both was sent from heaven to earth in the form of a man.
8 & 46: Both were called Savior, and the second person of the Trinity.
13, 15, 16 & 23: His adoptive human father was a carpenter.
18: A spirit or ghost was their actual father.
21: Krishna and Jesus were of royal descent.
27 & 28: Both were visited at birth by wise men and shepherds, guided by a star.
30 to 34: Angels in both cases issued a warning that the local dictator planned to kill the baby and had issued a decree for his assassination. The parents fled. Mary and Joseph stayed in Muturea; Krishna's parents stayed in Mathura.
41 & 42: Both Yeshua and Krishna withdrew to the wilderness as adults, and fasted.
56: Both were identified as "the seed of the woman bruising the serpent's head."
58: Jesus was called "the lion of the tribe of Judah." Krishna was called "the lion of the tribe of Saki."
60: Both claimed: "I am the Resurrection."
64: Both referred to themselves having existed before their birth on earth.
66: Both were "without sin."
72: Both were god-men: being considered both human and divine.
76, 77, & 78: They were both considered omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.
83, 84, & 85: Both performed many miracles, including the healing of disease. One of the first miracles that both performed was to make a leper whole. Each cured "all manner of diseases."
86 & 87: Both cast out indwelling demons, and raised the dead.
101: Both selected disciples to spread his teachings.
109 to 112: Both were meek, and merciful. Both were criticized for associating with sinners.
115: Both encountered a Gentile woman at a well.
121 to 127: Both celebrated a last supper. Both forgave his enemies.
128 to 131: Both descended into Hell, and were resurrected. Many people witnessed their ascensions into heaven. "


http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr1.htm
 
The Krishna and Christian Jesus Parallels
Robert Howard Kroepel
Copyright © 2001


The parallels (similarities) of the Hindu Krishna Myth to the Christian Jesus myth are strong evidence that Christianity stole/borrowed elements of the older myth.
In comparing the Krishna and Jesus myths, some of the references of the Jesus myth are stories found in the so-called Apocryphal Gospels, the early Christian writings which were not accepted for the Christian canon, which includes the Gospels of Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John, the Acts, and other letters.

Special note will be made of the Apocryphal Gospel references.

The Apocryphal Gospel myths are included because they give additional mythological information not found in the Canonic Gospels.

Because we are interested in the total Jesus myth, this additional information is included.

Here is a chart comparing the Jesus myth to the Krishna myth.


Comparison of the Jesus and Krishna Myths The Hindu Krishna Myth The Christian Jesus Myth
Krishna is the son of the Virgin Devaki. Jesus is the son of the Virgin Mary.
Krishna's birth occurs while his foster father, Nanda, is in his native city to pay taxes to the king, King Kansa. Jesus' birth occurs while his foster father, Joseph, is in his native city to pay taxes to the Governor.
King Kansa tried to kill Krishna by ordeing the slaughter of all males born on the same day as Krishna. King Herod ordered the slaughter of all infants born on the same day as Jesus.
Source: St. Matthew, 2:16.
The Virgin Devaki is told by an angel, "In thy delivery, O favored among women, all nations shall have cause to rejoice." The Virgin Mary is told by an angel, "Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. ... Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favor with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."
Source: St. Luke 1:28-33.
The nativity of Krishna is heralded by a star. The nativity of Jesus is heralded by a star.
Krishna is born in a cave.
The cave story is an indication of lower-class birthplace. Jesus is born in a cave.
Source: The Apocryphal Gospel entitled Protevangelion, supposedly written by James, the brother of Jesus.
The manger story (wherein Jesus was born in a stable) is an indication of a low-class birthplace.
Krishna is visited in the cave by three wise men bearing gifts. Jesus is visited in the stable/cave by three wise men bearing gifts.
The cave was mysteriously illuminated. The cave was illuminated so brightly Joseph and Mary's midwife could not tolerate the light.
Source: The Apocryphal Gospel Protevangelion.
Nanda is warned by an angel to flee from King Kansa by crossing the Jumna River with the infant Krishna. Joseph is warned in a dream to flee from King Herod into Egypt with the infant Jesus and the Virgin Mary.
The baby Krishna began speaking to his mother shortly after birth. The baby Jesus began speaking to the Virgin Mary shortly after his birth, saying, "Mary, I am Jesus, the Son of God, that WORD which thou didst bring forth according to the declaration of the Angel Gabriel to thee, and my Father hath sent me for the salvation of the world."
Source: The Apocryphal Gospel, The First Gospel of the Infancy.
Krishna performs miracles in Mathura. Jesus performs miracles in the town of Materea in Egypt.
Krishna is the second person of the Hindu Trinity: (1) Brahma, (2) Vishnu, (3) Siva. Krishna is the incarnation of Vishnu. Jesus is the second person of the Christian Trinity: (1) God, the Father, (2) Jesus the Son, (3) the Holy Ghost.
Krishna was crucified. Jesus was crucified.
During the crucifixion, Krishna was wounded by an arrow. During the crucifixion, Jesus was wounded by a spear.
At noon on the day of Krishna's crucifixion, the sun darkened. From the sixth hour to the ninth hour on the day of Jesus' crucifixion, the sun darkened.
Krishna descended into Hell.
He raised the dead.
He brought back two boys from Hell. Jesus descended into Hell.
He raised the dead.
He brought back from Hell two boys, the sons of the high priest.
Source: The Apocryphal Gospel of Nicodemus.


http://www.bobkwebsite.com/krishnajesusmyths.html
 
Truth be told, how many "virgin" births are there in history?
Posted by admin On June - 12 - 2009There are at least a few dozen instances of virgin births in history that I'm aware of, mostly of religious figures.

Eighteen hundred years before Christ, we find carved on one of the walls of the great temple of Luxor a picture of the annunciation, conception and birth of King Amunothph III, an almost exact copy of the annunciation, conception and birth of the Christian God.

Roman/Greek: Demeter and Persephone, Rhea and Zeus, Apollo

In Egypt, virgin mother Isis begat Horus

In Phrygia, Attis was born of the virgin Nama.

A nymph bathing in a river in China is touched by a lotus plant, and the divine Fohi is born.

In Siam, a wandering sunbeam caresses a girl in her teens, and the great and wonderful deliverer, Codom, is born.

In the life of Buddha we read that he descended on his mother Maya, "in likeness as the heavenly queen, and entered her womb," and was born from her right side, to save the world."

In Greece, the young god Apollo visits a fair maid of Athens, and a Plato is ushered into the world.

From Greece comes the virgin birth of Adonis, who was resurrected after being killed by a wild boar. Adonis was revered by the Phoenicians as a dying-and-rising god, and Athenians held Adonia, a yearly festival representing his death and resurrection, in midsummer.

From the Americas comes a remarkable story of the god-man Quetzalcoatl told by the Aztecs and Mayans. Not only did he have a virgin birth, but he was associated with the planet Venus, the morning star, as was Jesus. In addition, the religion built around him used the cross as a symbolic representation. Like the myths around Jesus, Quetzalcoatl said he would return to claim his earthly kingdom.

Mithra was a Persian god who was also a virgin birth, but was more than just a tribal god. Mithra was born in a cave and had twelve companions. Mithra's birthday was also on December 25th. Both religions celebrate the resurrection at Easter. Much of what we know about Mithracism today came from the Christians. The prophet Zoroaster was also born of a virgin.

Perseus and Hercules all experienced virgin births after being fathered by yet other gods. Horus, Mithra, Dionysus and Krishna were all born on December 25th., their births were announced by "stars", attended by 'wise men', involved humble birth locations, entailed the massacre of innocents and fleeing for safety from enemies, and so on and on.


A Roman savior Quirrnus was born of a virgin.

In Tibet, Indra was born of a virgin. He ascended into heaven after death.

In India, the god Krishna was born of the virgin Devaki.

Virgin births were claimed for many Egyptian pharaohs, Greek emperors and for Alexander the Great of Greece.

For a discussion of several aspects of the Christian virgin-birth story, including speculation on origins.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/virgin_b.htm

Not only the idea of a virgin mother, but all the other miraculous events, such as the stable cradle, the guiding star, the massacre of the children, the flight to Egypt, and the resurrection and bodily ascension toward the clouds, have not only been borrowed, but are even scarcely altered in the New Testament story of Jesus.

http://www.sonn.com/~perly/glk/files/Main_Files/B2-BibleB.txt
Comparisons of the story of Jesus Christ to stories of other religious figures

http://www.church-of-chaos.de/literature/general/truthjesus.html
http://www.sonn.com/~perly/glk/files/Unsorted_Files/A427-JESUS_Myth.txt
http://www.uc.summit.nj.uua.org/Sermons/BAB/951203.html
http://www.crosscircle.com/CH_2m.htm

http://members.aol.com/tjzee/iss174.htm
A discussion of the virgin-birth story from a modern perspective

Apparently virgin births were quite common up until the advancement of medicine and science. How would you explain it??

It's pretty standard deity stuff. I don't blame them for giving it to Jesus - if I were to create a religious figure, I'd at least give him the virgin birth, the water-walking, and the healing ability (three rather common traits of mythological figures). Most people hadn't heard the other myths and wouldn't have spotted the plagiarism.
 
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