DeFi - going bankless

johnarb said:
In the context of going bankless, or more like crypto byob (be your own bank, not the other acronym, lol).

Sort of DeFi, but really a combination of Crypto and fiat banking.

I took out a loan on BlockFi to test it out using BTC, you don't have to sell your cryptos and when you pay off your loan, you are free to withdraw your cryptos back to your wallet.

I guess this is similar to asset-based lending in traditional finance where you put your asset as collateral so you can spend without selling your investments. This is an alternative to cashing out your cryptos on Coinbase where you have to sell your cryptos if you want to have some $

I wish Celsius supported my state for borrowing as they have better rates, but maybe in the future...

https://blockfi.com/crypto-loans/

https://celsius.network/
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I'm exploring the same thing on a different path - the wrapping of btc as a ERC-20. It's allowing for maintaining exposure to the underlying and also accruing value as being a part of an LP pair earning fees.
 
Sprout said:
You bring up a great point and something that I have fallen into myself - a recovering BTC maxi. A lot of the BTC maxi's have closed minds and fossilized thinking. They have entirely missed the boat with the possibilities of smart contracts and the grey space between BTC, fiat and dismissed the whole space as 'rent seeking' with a tone of disdain.
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I love btc, in my view, it's the best version of gold (SoV) that could have been thought of. The value is derived from the trust in its scarcity and is proven by the enormous amount of energy and resources to produce 1 bitcoin through mining.

When I de-risked a couple of days ago, bitcoin became my biggest holding although yesterday, CEL was mooning and it surpassed my btc holding and the 2 are close in value, currently.

A sidenote, my Tezos position has been cut down to a small position, 7th in my portfolio, I've been selling it off for about 2 weeks now, was sad doing it as it had been my all-in holding during the bear market and it has saved me. I can always re-enter if it pumps hard or with significant news. Cannot fall in love with a stock, or in this case, crypto...
 
Sprout said:
As for the DeFi sector, it has turned into a bit of a joke with all the farming and food meme contracts. Coingecko now has a farming/degen sort. It's good in a convoluted way in that the hype is obscuring some legitimate powerhouses. Although I see a lot of chasing that will yield more rekt traders than anything else.

I have yet to find a metric that is better at comparing and contrasting like-to-like. Marketcap and Volume doesn't paint a complete picture since it is conflating price with supply.
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Did you say meme? https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/degenerator-meme/

I'm not in it and not looking to buy in, but apparently Andre Cronje excitedly tweeted about purchasing an NFT and how it can be the next revolution in p2p marketplace (but $MEME had already been mooning before that).
 
Sprout said:
I'm exploring the same thing on a different path - the wrapping of btc as a ERC-20. It's allowing for maintaining exposure to the underlying and also accruing value as being a part of an LP pair earning fees.
More...

It's risk vs reward. Bitcoin maxis will tell you just hold bitcoin, but the truth is I've seen posts on bitcointalk (wall observer) of hodlers inquiring about (passive) income on bitcoin and some would bring up BlockFi. Of course majority responses reject the idea of depositing their btc's on a centralized entity, but bottom line, there is no income generation from holding btc, only capital (price) appreciation.

In my opinion, risk-reward, low to high, risk and yields, BlockFi, Celsius, then smart contract wrapped-btc's.

I don't know if I'll ever use the wrapped btc's since I have a lot of other erc-holdings that produce much higher yields than wrapped btc's, but one comment is that try to use a single-asset or a high ratio (98%/2%) to minimize the IL risk.

On the subject of impermanent loss, experienced it badly yesterday. I derisked 2-3 days ago on all my DeFi coins and in the process re-entered yield farming Cream/USDC, thinking hey, what could go wrong, that's a stablecoin pair, well, Cream had burn news, coin went up from when I entered the pool at $60'sh, and is now $116, so I'm making bank, well sort of, last night I simulated the m2m profits and yea, LP was worth $5K more, but I had about 50 Cream tokens less than when I entered the LP (as a single-asset and the platform converts 50-50).

Anyway, TL;DR, the LP would have offered price-crash protection of Cream, but also limited upside, and if that was my goal, that would have been fine, but it wasn't, I was bullish on Cream at that "low" price. I re-entered Cream only LP staking last night so no more IL risk.

And to belabor the IL concept. I'm trying to find the best yields with the lowest risk and setteled on the YFV platform yesterday (not a recommendation, just offering a viewpoint). They have a lot of Balancer pools farming/staking with great yields but at 98/2 ratio much less IL risk. I deposited all of my YFI and all of my LEND cryptos and will see what happens. They have some wrapped btc's BPT farming/staking as well.

I did not purchase any YFV tokens but earning quite a bit now as the yield is payable in YFV cryptos which I'm planning to re-stake (every week) on the platform for even higher yields and convert all YFV's to stablecoins after a month. That's the plan, we'll see if I get rekt, lol. Two risks, YFV smart contract platform and Balancer pool smart contract, but the latter has been battle-tested proven for a while now.

https://yfv.finance/
 
johnarb said:
I love btc, in my view, it's the best version of gold (SoV) that could have been thought of. The value is derived from the trust in its scarcity and is proven by the enormous amount of energy and resources to produce 1 bitcoin through mining.

When I de-risked a couple of days ago, bitcoin became my biggest holding although yesterday, CEL was mooning and it surpassed my btc holding and the 2 are close in value, currently.

A sidenote, my Tezos position has been cut down to a small position, 7th in my portfolio, I've been selling it off for about 2 weeks now, was sad doing it as it had been my all-in holding during the bear market and it has saved me. I can always re-enter if it pumps hard or with significant news. Cannot fall in love with a stock, or in this case, crypto...
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1307389546561179653
 
johnarb said:
It's risk vs reward. Bitcoin maxis will tell you just hold bitcoin, but the truth is I've seen posts on bitcointalk (wall observer) of hodlers inquiring about (passive) income on bitcoin and some would bring up BlockFi. Of course majority responses reject the idea of depositing their btc's on a centralized entity, but bottom line, there is no income generation from holding btc, only capital (price) appreciation.

In my opinion, risk-reward, low to high, risk and yields, BlockFi, Celsius, then smart contract wrapped-btc's.

I don't know if I'll ever use the wrapped btc's since I have a lot of other erc-holdings that produce much higher yields than wrapped btc's, but one comment is that try to use a single-asset or a high ratio (98%/2%) to minimize the IL risk.

On the subject of impermanent loss, experienced it badly yesterday. I derisked 2-3 days ago on all my DeFi coins and in the process re-entered yield farming Cream/USDC, thinking hey, what could go wrong, that's a stablecoin pair, well, Cream had burn news, coin went up from when I entered the pool at $60'sh, and is now $116, so I'm making bank, well sort of, last night I simulated the m2m profits and yea, LP was worth $5K more, but I had about 50 Cream tokens less than when I entered the LP (as a single-asset and the platform converts 50-50).

Anyway, TL;DR, the LP would have offered price-crash protection of Cream, but also limited upside, and if that was my goal, that would have been fine, but it wasn't, I was bullish on Cream at that "low" price. I re-entered Cream only LP staking last night so no more IL risk.

And to belabor the IL concept. I'm trying to find the best yields with the lowest risk and setteled on the YFV platform yesterday (not a recommendation, just offering a viewpoint). They have a lot of Balancer pools farming/staking with great yields but at 98/2 ratio much less IL risk. I deposited all of my YFI and all of my LEND cryptos and will see what happens. They have some wrapped btc's BPT farming/staking as well.

I did not purchase any YFV tokens but earning quite a bit now as the yield is payable in YFV cryptos which I'm planning to re-stake (every week) on the platform for even higher yields and convert all YFV's to stablecoins after a month. That's the plan, we'll see if I get rekt, lol. Two risks, YFV smart contract platform and Balancer pool smart contract, but the latter has been battle-tested proven for a while now.

https://yfv.finance/
More...

Yeah, I went to stablecoins last week and re-evaluating opportunities. Either gonna play more with Aave, Compound and Yearn with LP deposits or just focus on trading outright. I'm finding most of the crypto trading platforms lacking compared to futures platforms.

Cream had a great pop, not sure if the Andre tweet was the catalyst.
 
Sprout said:
Yeah, I went to stablecoins last week and re-evaluating opportunities. Either gonna play more with Aave, Compound and Yearn with LP deposits or just focus on trading outright. I'm finding most of the crypto trading platforms lacking compared to futures platforms.

Cream had a great pop, not sure if the Andre tweet was the catalyst.
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I don't use FTX but maybe that's what you're looking for as a crypto trading platform?

Cream has a maximum supply of 9M tokens so fully diluted valuation marketcap was much higher than peers that are more mature (i.e AAVE, Compound) based on its price.

Circulating supply is about 150K tokens, much less, but the uncertainty of the max supply was an issue, hence the burn, and the pop. As the Cream price was going down last night (dipped below $100), they introduced a new product/service called CreamY, which is a money-market interest-rate bearing, going after the Curve business. This is what Andre tweeted on.

Cream now has lending/borrowing platform (forked from Compound smart contract, Comp is one of the advisors getting lots of Cream tokens), Cream also has AMM (forked from Balancer smart contract), and Cream also has Creamswap (I think just using the Balancer swap/exchange features), and last night, they introduced CreamY which may or may not be a fork of Curve.

Cream is vertically integrating all the DeFi products in their platform, or is trying to and every single Cream Team member voted against accelerated vesting, which their seed investors and advisors got.

ok, enough Cream shilling, lol....
 
Sprout said:
They have entirely missed the boat with the possibilities of smart contracts and the grey space between BTC, fiat and dismissed the whole space as 'rent seeking' with a tone of disdain.
More...

Rent-seeking has been turned upside down by the pandemic. All those North Cali real estate purchased for use in Air-bnb and the likes, all the small landlords renting out to low-income and unable to pay their mortgages, and the retirees putting their nest egg on the safest investment (real-estate) and renting unused rooms, suddenly find themselves with no income due to rent and eviction moratoriums.

Cryptos are the most liquid investment assets, available 24/7/365 more than stocks :D no need for 30-day escrow for availability of funds from real estate sale, just use stablecoins to lock in the value.

Celsius is centralized finance but kept honest by a community of Celsians watching their business moves on a transparent blockchain. Alex talks incessantly about the parasitic rent-seeking banks and there's a video every week with about the same message, unbank yourself :cool::vomit:

 
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