DB says Nor did the Muslims start the conflict with the Christians
- Thread starter jem
- Start date
How do you explain the Christian attack on Mecca before there were any Muslims? (look it up yourself!)
How do you explain Christians had already an expanded Empire 'out to asia and all the way over to Spain'?
How do you explain there were no muslims when those two things happened?
But don't you worry, it's a fact, no matter how blind you are to facts, christians in all their forms were being big enough bastards in ancient history long before muslims ever could.
Good gosh, Ricter is back..... and it appears he has fallen off the wagon.
Based on his posts today, he's like the Amy Winehouse of ET P&R.
Welcome back... I hope you enjoyed your vacation.
luckily I never said anything about those things... and luckily I have no reason to explain those things now... because I have no idea what you think I am opposing
If I were to engage on this new argument, I might first ask if you are substituting in Christians for Romans... and confusing dates and times.
However, what would be nice is if you were to tie in history and create some substance for your argument.
(its been so long... perhaps you would like to tell us what your argument is and support it... because frankly I am not sure anyone would be able to figure it out from your posts. You might be saying the muslims were not attacking for religious reasons (jihad) or taxes (jizya) or looting or power... However, I doubt you could muster the backbone to do that... because then you would have been on point.)
If I were to engage on this new argument, I might first ask if you are substituting in Christians for Romans... and confusing dates and times.
However, what would be nice is if you were to tie in history and create some substance for your argument.
(its been so long... perhaps you would like to tell us what your argument is and support it... because frankly I am not sure anyone would be able to figure it out from your posts. You might be saying the muslims were not attacking for religious reasons (jihad) or taxes (jizya) or looting or power... However, I doubt you could muster the backbone to do that... because then you would have been on point.)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab–Byzantine_wars
The Arab–Byzantine wars were a series of wars between the mostly Arab Muslims and the East Roman or Byzantine Empire between the 7th and 11th centuries AD. Started during the initial Muslim conquestsunder the expansionist Rashidun and Umayyad caliphs in the 7th century and continued by their successors until the mid-11th century.
The eruption of the Arabs from the Arab Peninsula (now Saudi Arabia) in the 630s resulted in the rapid loss of Byzantium's southern provinces (Syria and Egypt) to the Muslims. Over the next fifty years, under the aggressive Umayyad caliphs, the Muslims would launch repeated raids into still-Byzantine Asia Minor, twice threaten the Byzantine capital, Constantinople, with conquest, and outright conquer the ByzantineExarchate of Africa. The situation did not stabilize until after the failure of the Second Arab Siege of Constantinople in 718, when the Taurus Mountains on the eastern rim of Asia Minor became established as the mutual, heavily fortified and largely depopulated frontier. Under the Abbasid Empire, relations became more normal, with embassies exchanged and even periods of truce, but conflict remained the norm, with almost annual raids and counter-raids, sponsored either by the Abbasid government or by local rulers, well into the 10th century.
During the first centuries, the Byzantines were usually in the defensive, and avoided open field battles, preferring to retreat to their fortified strongholds. Only after 740 did they begin to launch counterstrikes of their own, but still the Abbasid Empire was able to retaliate with often massive and destructive invasions of Asia Minor. With the decline and fragmentation of the Abbasid state after 861 and the concurrent strengthening of the Byzantine Empire under the Macedonian dynasty, the tide gradually turned. Over a period of fifty years from ca. 920 to 976, the Byzantines finally broke through the Muslim defences and restored their control over northern Syria and Greater Armenia. The last century of the Arab–Byzantine wars was dominated by frontier conflicts with the Fatimids in Syria, but the border remained stable until the appearance of a new people, the Seljuk Turks, after 1060.
The Muslims also took to the sea, and from the 650s on, the entire Mediterranean Sea became a battleground, with raids and counter-raids being launched against islands and the coastal settlements. Muslim raids reached a peak in the 9th and early 10th centuries, after their conquest of Crete, Malta and Sicily, with their fleets reaching the coasts of France and Dalmatia and even the suburbs of Constantinople.
The Arab–Byzantine wars were a series of wars between the mostly Arab Muslims and the East Roman or Byzantine Empire between the 7th and 11th centuries AD. Started during the initial Muslim conquestsunder the expansionist Rashidun and Umayyad caliphs in the 7th century and continued by their successors until the mid-11th century.
The eruption of the Arabs from the Arab Peninsula (now Saudi Arabia) in the 630s resulted in the rapid loss of Byzantium's southern provinces (Syria and Egypt) to the Muslims. Over the next fifty years, under the aggressive Umayyad caliphs, the Muslims would launch repeated raids into still-Byzantine Asia Minor, twice threaten the Byzantine capital, Constantinople, with conquest, and outright conquer the ByzantineExarchate of Africa. The situation did not stabilize until after the failure of the Second Arab Siege of Constantinople in 718, when the Taurus Mountains on the eastern rim of Asia Minor became established as the mutual, heavily fortified and largely depopulated frontier. Under the Abbasid Empire, relations became more normal, with embassies exchanged and even periods of truce, but conflict remained the norm, with almost annual raids and counter-raids, sponsored either by the Abbasid government or by local rulers, well into the 10th century.
During the first centuries, the Byzantines were usually in the defensive, and avoided open field battles, preferring to retreat to their fortified strongholds. Only after 740 did they begin to launch counterstrikes of their own, but still the Abbasid Empire was able to retaliate with often massive and destructive invasions of Asia Minor. With the decline and fragmentation of the Abbasid state after 861 and the concurrent strengthening of the Byzantine Empire under the Macedonian dynasty, the tide gradually turned. Over a period of fifty years from ca. 920 to 976, the Byzantines finally broke through the Muslim defences and restored their control over northern Syria and Greater Armenia. The last century of the Arab–Byzantine wars was dominated by frontier conflicts with the Fatimids in Syria, but the border remained stable until the appearance of a new people, the Seljuk Turks, after 1060.
The Muslims also took to the sea, and from the 650s on, the entire Mediterranean Sea became a battleground, with raids and counter-raids being launched against islands and the coastal settlements. Muslim raids reached a peak in the 9th and early 10th centuries, after their conquest of Crete, Malta and Sicily, with their fleets reaching the coasts of France and Dalmatia and even the suburbs of Constantinople.
You don't get it. You are also rewriting history.