Day trading is losers game

Quote from cornixforex:

Very good points, Riffraff!

That's exactly what most don't understand: trading, any trading is always a bet on unknown outcome. Thinking it isn't simply means one either owns the world (the most important inside information at least) already or just is a person who is not in control of his/her own ego.

Second case is much more common of course, this forum is full of unrecognized geniuses, who think they can be more than just pro gamblers in this game. :)
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Beneath every genius is an ordinary bloke trying to express himself! Freaking genuises on E T!
 
Quote from riffrafffpatrol:

Hogwash... pure hogwash.

Success comes from having an edge. Tight stops being taken out frequently is a misnomer as a general statement in and of itself.... there are reasons specifically why tight stops will be taken out. .

The true amateurs are those that are forced to set wide stops due to lack of an edge on timing the entry!

Disagree? Read through this thread (pgs 10-14) which will explain further with a real world trade example:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3559444#post3559444
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Nonsense : Pure snake oil/mentor talk from somebody who doesn't trade.

Tight stops will throw traders out of their most profitable trades , often you hear cases of traders being spiked out, when volatility expands tight stops get slaughtered.

The sensible traders who want to stay in a trade , will use wider stops or mental stops.

If your set up has an edge , you don't need a tight stop.The further away your stop ,the more profitable you will become , you will pay less in shaken out costs and spreads.

Some systems that ran profits for up to 250 pips were more profitable , compared to tight stop traders , because they did not pay the spread many times long a trend.

You will see the price come to your tight stop and take you out ,many times a day , and rebound.:confused:
 
Quote from oilfxpro:

With day trading , you are trading noise and trading with the wind.

If the set up has an edge , IF is the important word. Set ups in day trading are not identifiable from random walks , more set ups fail . INTRA DAY SET UPS based on discretionary trading can not be back tested , to see if they have an edge.

So according to you ,it is all about discipline , psychology , your game plan and how you react to the market behaviour and those failed set ups .It all works fine in theory , until the market starts behaving unpredictably .


http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=236978&perpage=6&pagenumber=1
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Can DOM scalping in FI or other liquid futures be backtested? Of course not. Does it mean this kind of trading is impossible? Tell this to some FI scalper, make him laugh. :D
 
Quote from oilfxpro:

Nonsense : Pure snake oil/mentor talk from somebody who doesn't trade.

Tight stops will throw traders out of their most profitable trades , often you hear cases of traders being spiked out, when volatility expands tight stops get slaughtered.

The sensible traders who want to stay in a trade , will use wider stops or mental stops.

If your set up has an edge , you don't need a tight stop.The further away your stop ,the more profitable you will become , you will pay less in shaken out costs and spreads.

Some systems that ran profits for up to 250 pips were more profitable , compared to tight stop traders , because they did not pay the spread many times long a trend.

You will see the price come to your tight stop and take you out ,many times a day , and rebound.:confused:
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Wow, dude, now you officially know the only correct way to trade, anything else besides what you said is a losers game, anyone who trades differently from what you said is a loser. Congrats, mr. The One Who Knows Ultimate Truth! :D
 
Quote from oilfxpro:

Nonsense : Pure snake oil/mentor talk from somebody who doesn't trade.

Tight stops will throw traders out of their most profitable trades , often you hear cases of traders being spiked out, when volatility expands tight stops get slaughtered.

The sensible traders who want to stay in a trade , will use wider stops or mental stops.

If your set up has an edge , you don't need a tight stop.The further away your stop ,the more profitable you will become , you will pay less in shaken out costs and spreads.

Some systems that ran profits for up to 250 pips were more profitable , compared to tight stop traders , because they did not pay the spread many times long a trend.

You will see the price come to your tight stop and take you out ,many times a day , and rebound.:confused:
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Sorry Oilxpro-- you are wrong.... Im a full time intraday directional options trader -- I am flat every nite.

Amateurs need wide stops because they truly dont understand proper entries. Proper postion sizing in such cases result in fewer shares/contracts. A trader who has an edge in the market and understands high probability entry criteria can position size for max shares/contracts with the same amount of risk but far larger profit potential. And for the times when the stop loss hits - the trader with the edge moves on looking for that exact same setup-- knowing that he has an edge & that each trade stands on its own merit. For the reckless novice in contrast that didnt positiom size because he felt that widr stop had no chance of hitting -- a huge loss results! What camp do u fall in olix?

Did u happen to read the thread i provided a link on? I will show u equity after equity --day in day out--of the same type of movement that aapl displayed-- with far less than even .19 of price revisiting a pivot lod/hod before reversing -- how is this remotely possible??? The mm sweep of stops as a general rule is pure bs... I see charts everyday in high beta names where it never happens... why olix? U have no clue obviously -- and judging by title of this thread and your ignorant reponses- i dont expect u to understand. Just know that u r wrong -- that is a fact. There are soecific reasons why stops will get swept -- reasons far greater than a consiracy theory that mms see u & want u out -- stops get broken more often than not and novices w/tight stops get swept because their entry was wrong!!! Going long when the clear indication was for new lows to be made! Again did u read the thread I linked???
 
Quote from oilfxpro:

With day trading , you are trading noise and trading with the wind.

If the set up has an edge , IF is the important word. Set ups in day trading are not identifiable from random walks , more set ups fail . INTRA DAY SET UPS based on discretionary trading can not be back tested , to see if they have an edge.

So according to you ,it is all about discipline , psychology , your game plan and how you react to the market behaviour and those failed set ups .It all works fine in theory , until the market starts behaving unpredictably .


http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=236978&perpage=6&pagenumber=1
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This is beyond laughable.

Olix- let me guess-- u have failed...and failed miserably I might add-- as a day trader-- am I close to the proverbial nail? If you say no -- i say bs. Because anyone who has succeeded in this biz would never subscribe to such blatant fallacies!

"Noise"???? Lol -- u have got to be kidding-- seriously olix??? Im really beginning to question intelligence here... do u realize the timeframes we are dealing with here intraday? I am almost 100% sure I know what your answer will be... I think I will wait to see if my intuition is correct... but know this--noise definitely exists-- no shred of a doubt here... however once again u are taking a generality and applying it as a rule to fit your thesis. Big problem there olix-- there are layers and layers in between... perhaps u just dont get it olix-- ever think that's a possiblity? Or do we have to much pride? What is it...?

"more setups fail"???? Really now? Please enlighten me first on how many intraday setups exist. Then tell me how many actually fail. Because for u to make such a statement can only mean u know the answer to these questions. Cant wait to here your reply-- but be very careful-- your credibility is at stake now.

No backtesting? Really? Hmmm-- so the intraday strategy setup that I see in a single specific equity multiple times everyday regardless of an inside bearish market day, inside bullish market day, outside bearish/outside bullish market day... cant be tested over let's say a 2 year period on a specific timeframe with a minimum of a specific sampling size number required in order to be statistically meaningful and valid... simply cant be done...?
Hmmm...
 
Quote from riffrafffpatrol:

Uuuuummmm... were u trying to say something olix...?
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No words are neccesary!Retards would not understand..

Need to change your handle and remove patrol.
 
Quote from oilfxpro:

No words are neccesary!Retards would not understand..

Need to change your handle and remove patrol.
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Just as I thought-- your lack of apologetic rebuttal to my posts refuting your thesis speaks wonders...

It's always amazing to me how many times posters such as u prove themselves wrong with little effort by those in the know.

Here's a tip for you-- get an education how markets really work olix-- there still is hope for u if u truly apply yourself instead of the negative attitude that exudes ignorance.
 
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