Day trading is losers game

Quote from oilfxpro:

Even psychologists have 95 % failure rate at successfully treating patients. :D
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Nope, not the case, because consulting a client is not something that demands iron discipline and deliberate practice. So if you just have enough experience it's easy and far not so demanding as trading.

But ask an old smoker if that's easy to stop smoking and you'll see the reality: being disciplined by his/her own free will is probably one of the hardest tasks for a human.

Is that simple to lose weight for example? Of course, everyone knows how. But do most who try succeed at it and get into the perfect physical shape? Rhetoric question.

Trading is the same IMO. It's hard not because there's some hidden secret, but because it's extremely tough emotionally to first do your home work and then execute with perfect discipline again and again for years in a row knowing even small lapse can make a difference between winning and losing.

Only who tried it know how it's like.
 
Quote from cornixforex:
Quote from oilfxpro:

Even psychologists have 95 % failure rate at successfully treating patients. :D
More...
Nope, not the case, because consulting a client is not something that demands iron discipline and deliberate practice. So if you just have enough experience it's easy and far not so demanding as trading.

But ask an old smoker if that's easy to stop smoking and you'll see the reality: being disciplined by his/her own free will is probably one of the hardest tasks for a human.

Is that simple to lose weight for example? Of course, everyone knows how. But do most who try succeed at it and get into the perfect physical shape? Rhetoric question.

Trading is the same IMO. It's hard not because there's some hidden secret, but because it's extremely tough emotionally to first do your home work and then execute with perfect discipline again and again for years in a row knowing even small lapse can make a difference between winning and losing.

Only who tried it know how it's like.
More...
I have to somewhat disagree. Trading is hard because it requires not only discipline, it does require learning some secret(s). The stuff published in trading books and articles is at least 98% crap, especially the conventional TA crap like macd. Until you learn some actual verifiable trading techniques, you're doomed no matter how much discipline you have. And price action is for the birds. It's like trying to learn how to fly a plane in a gale-force storm by the seat of your pants while completely ignoring the value of learning to use some instrument(s). No thanks.
 
Quote from kut2k2:

I have to somewhat disagree. Trading is hard because it requires not only discipline, it does require some learning some secret(s). The stuff published in trading books and articles is at least 98% crap, especially the conventional TA crap like macd. Until you learn some actual verifiable trading techniques, you're doomed no matter how much discipline you have. And price action is for the birds. It's like trying to learn how to fly a plane in a gale-force storm by the seat of your pants while completely ignoring the possibility of learning to use some instruments. No thanks.
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That fits into "do your homework" category in my view. Indeed it takes a lot of time to notice patterns of the market, which work then develop your signals based on those, back/forward test them, demo trade them and then slowly start live trading them. But what stops most who try from doing it is not lack of time, it's lack of dedication to the goal and discipline in doing what's required to learn and develop a solid trading approach.

As for the price action/TA validity argument, I'll refrain from it for now.
 
Quote from Xspurt:

It's a one off $20K but it's not available at the moment.

Next time he makes the offer available I'll PM you and you can check it out then.
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Thank you.

I'm training and doing it the hardcore way, but from time to time, it's good to see things beyond my focus which might broaden my horizon.
 
Quote from cornixforex:

Nope, not the case, because consulting a client is not something that demands iron discipline and deliberate practice. So if you just have enough experience it's easy and far not so demanding as trading.

But ask an old smoker if that's easy to stop smoking and you'll see the reality: being disciplined by his/her own free will is probably one of the hardest tasks for a human.

Is that simple to lose weight for example? Of course, everyone knows how. But do most who try succeed at it and get into the perfect physical shape? Rhetoric question.

Trading is the same IMO. It's hard not because there's some hidden secret, but because it's extremely tough emotionally to first do your home work and then execute with perfect discipline again and again for years in a row knowing even small lapse can make a difference between winning and losing.

Only who tried it know how it's like.
More...


A true psychologist would know brain science is the least advanced ,and we know very little at least about the subject.Anyone who attempts to treat patients is not necessarily successfully at accomplishing the job of curing the patient , 95 % of them fail to accomplish the job OF SUCCESSFULLY CURING THE PATIENT.Like 95 % of traders.
 
Quote from oilfxpro:

There are so many threads negative about day trading , it was time to ask why is there no successful day trader in the popularity of George Sorros , Jim Symons etc.

Trading is a zero sum game and day trading is a negative sum game.The only people making money out of it is brokers.

If it was profitable to day trade , brokers would hire people to trade with broker's capital.

A few internet marketeers are selling motoring , under the guise of successful day trading , but these are just scams.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=220707

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=220676

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=218977

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220513

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218160
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It is not a losers game, you (oilfx) have not mastered it yet. :) Most day traders lose. Maybe it's 50%, or maybe 90%.

I prefer swing trading. But day trading with real risk management (for noobs it starts with stop orders and position sizes) is an ideal place to start, because most don't have the capital to do swing trading at first.
 
Quote from vincentvega:

It is not a losers game, you (oilfx) have not mastered it yet. :) Most day traders lose. Maybe it's 50%, or maybe 90%.

I prefer swing trading. But day trading with real risk management (for noobs it starts with stop orders and position sizes) is an ideal place to start, because most don't have the capital to do swing trading at first.
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Have you any argument to prove your point , or is this just merely an opinion?
 
OK, from a totally biased, self absorbed, bad guy who is only trying to further his own firm.

In other words, take this with however many grains of cholesterol....

Trading, day trading or not, can be the answer to your dreams, or you worst nightmare. IT IS NOT EASY.

As with any solid profession, it takes time, education, and "sitting at the edge of your seat" to make to work.

No free ride.... but, it can be much easier if you just take the time to approach it correctly. Don't be scared off by those who think it's a "losers game" - And don't be sucked in by promises of greatness..... be real about it. It can work, if you have the training, the capital and the drive.

That's it, sorry... wish there was more to it.

Don
 
I started on building my system for day trading 4 years ago.

It's been a much longer haul than I could have imagined. Perhaps not so much from the inherent difficulty as other factors. I built my system for the ES and I wish I had picked a better instrument (as Fed interventions in the market started soon after).

If you defined a successful system as making 3pts on average per day (so 15 net at the end of the week e.g. +3, +5, -2, +6, +3), (distance pts not accounting for contracts per trade (1)), on a consistent basis (e.g 104 weeks) - I doubt many have (any) achieved this.

Regardless of how long the odds are, the goal, and perhaps any goal is achievable, I believe.

In daytrading the ES you have large odds to overcome (not the least of which is losing a point in and out (-0.25+0.25=0.50) for the spread i.e. $25 per trade. (Most brokerages computers internalize the trade (not send it to the exchange) and will not execute your trade until the opposite side of the spread has traded at the exchange for most trades.


The factors improving your odds of success are, I believe:

  • development of a system with an edge
    hard work
    discipline
    persistence
    enough initial capital
    open-mindedness
    and a belief that you will be able to succeed.

It could easily be that less and 1/10 of a percentage ever get to making $100,000 per year trading profits and far fewer ever become consistently successful (using the phrase as I have defined it above).

This doesn't mean it is not possible.

Best of luck to all.




----------footnote-------------------
(1) As an example if you scale in 2 at 1300 2 at 1302 an 2 at 1304 and closed the short trade 6 at 1299 - so average cost 1302 and average closing price 1299 - that would be 3 distance points -as I am using the phrase.
 
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