Day Trading is a pipedream.
- Thread starter guy990opl
- Start date
I was under the impression 'most professional daytraders will trade only from'... a combination of:
1) Market Profile: DOM & Tape Reading (Sales & Time)
2) Patterns: S&R, Trends, Candle's/Bar (price).. or the 'Set-Up'.
3) Price Action: Confirmation & Entry/Exit
Ofcourse Risk & Trade Management are Static points, as every disciplined trader has them in thier bag'o'tools.
Every method is profitable, If you look at in a very narrow slice of time. This is one of the major issues for new traders. When they arrive to the activity they always encounter someone who has been at it six months or a year and has made money doing "something". It stands to reason, If I do that I'll make money too.
But it doesn't work that way...
The true measure of profitability has to be over years and years if not decades... I've never seen a day trader ever post a track record over five years of activity.
If a trader wants to find solid trade methods they have to think about how long they want to trade, how many years, and then look for methods that have survived multiples of that period.
If you want to trade for ten years, better be looking for something that has stood up already for twenty or thirty years, and while you're at it take note of the volatility, the draw downs etc and build a realistic expectation of what kind of returns you'll generate.
If you only want to trade for six months or a year then look to the people who have only been doing it for that period of time and you'll get your wish.
The truth is out there for everyone to find, the question is are you willing to look for it, or is feeding the "hope" machine more important than "knowledge bucket"?
Quote from shihpinlo:
People can't do something themselves, they wanna tell you that you can't do it.
I cant seem to win the lottery....and I'm going to go out there and say that none of you all can do it either!
I thought I heard most of the older trading systems (20 to 40 years old) don't work anymore because it's harder to track inefficiencies and there are tens or hundreds of millions of new retail traders worldwide. Plus HFT , algos, and stop running is ruining many systems, trend following or otherwise. Certain stocks keep getting hammered back down by the shorts. In general it's just plain harder to trade than before. The "golden age" of daytrading may be in the past decade or more. Even with a good system, one may have to wait days or even weeks for conditions in the market to be tradeable again for a particular market. It would make sense that any system that worked are closely guarded secrets , if revealed would lose their edge fairly quickly by hundreds of thousands who latched on to it as well as HFT adding another system to their array of systems to stop hunt and ruin entries.
I make consistent profits swing trading.
Daytrading is still something Im working on and eventhough Im up the returns are not consistent.
Still lot of work to be done on my end but a pipedream it is not.
FoN
Daytrading is still something Im working on and eventhough Im up the returns are not consistent.
Still lot of work to be done on my end but a pipedream it is not.
FoN
What you write makes sense. It is a very different environment now, still having a system we can rely on is the best thing we can do.
It does not matter what kind of trading one does one needs a system.
I do not day trade yet too many times my ego got in between and I made discretionalry calls. When I did, t I lost a lot of money and it was a very humbling experience.
Now that I am well aware and experienced the pain of losing money I also know that I want avoid it at all costs and finally stick with a system for my long term trend following strategy.
Unfortunately many people have to experience that "pain of losing money" because no matter who they talk to and what they see, no one can create it for them.
It does not matter what kind of trading one does one needs a system.
I do not day trade yet too many times my ego got in between and I made discretionalry calls. When I did, t I lost a lot of money and it was a very humbling experience.
Now that I am well aware and experienced the pain of losing money I also know that I want avoid it at all costs and finally stick with a system for my long term trend following strategy.
Unfortunately many people have to experience that "pain of losing money" because no matter who they talk to and what they see, no one can create it for them.
you have some setups, you determine what conditions you will enter the trade (have a price), you enter the trade, you manage the trade, you exit the trade.
is this so difficult that so many great minds cannot fathom how to do this within a day of trading? Haha...yes the learning required can take years and years, learning how to execute a trade properly, and all the associated psychological work that may require for most aspiring day traders.
Some things about trading may have changed because of technology, but human nature is still the same, and traders who master this nature will win to the degree that they do it better than other traders. Yes, it is that simple. And no, it probably won't be easy. Day trading is a pipedream if that's what you tell yourself.
I feel fantastic with my lifestyle and it's due to the daytrading that I do in a few hours each day. True, some days I spend more time, but it doesn't feel like work to me. In general, though, I make superior returns (not measured in hedge fund metrics) that seem natural to me.
In any profession it takes some hours to acquire the skills of a professional. For some reason I see a lot of posts that begin and end something like..." I tried daytrading and lost, it was difficult, I lost money, so I quit." Well that's a pipedreamer for you.
Would it seem strange to hear a person say," I went to the operating room and wanted to perform neurosurgery....." or "I took the train to flushing meadows and tried to play in the USopen..."
You think you are competing against novices. I suggest if you want to daytrade, realize that you are trying to take money from other professionals, because the profitable traders are the ones that have all the money. Do you honestly think you can attempt it for a day, a few weeks, or a year and win consistently against them?
I think if you are not insane you know that answer...it takes time and learning work to become a professional. It is a simple process but it can take time.
is this so difficult that so many great minds cannot fathom how to do this within a day of trading? Haha...yes the learning required can take years and years, learning how to execute a trade properly, and all the associated psychological work that may require for most aspiring day traders.
Some things about trading may have changed because of technology, but human nature is still the same, and traders who master this nature will win to the degree that they do it better than other traders. Yes, it is that simple. And no, it probably won't be easy. Day trading is a pipedream if that's what you tell yourself.
I feel fantastic with my lifestyle and it's due to the daytrading that I do in a few hours each day. True, some days I spend more time, but it doesn't feel like work to me. In general, though, I make superior returns (not measured in hedge fund metrics) that seem natural to me.
In any profession it takes some hours to acquire the skills of a professional. For some reason I see a lot of posts that begin and end something like..." I tried daytrading and lost, it was difficult, I lost money, so I quit." Well that's a pipedreamer for you.
Would it seem strange to hear a person say," I went to the operating room and wanted to perform neurosurgery....." or "I took the train to flushing meadows and tried to play in the USopen..."
You think you are competing against novices. I suggest if you want to daytrade, realize that you are trying to take money from other professionals, because the profitable traders are the ones that have all the money. Do you honestly think you can attempt it for a day, a few weeks, or a year and win consistently against them?
I think if you are not insane you know that answer...it takes time and learning work to become a professional. It is a simple process but it can take time.
Here is a corollary of what I mean. Here we have a guy (that probably doesn't trade for a living) that is echoing the same thing (save the algos..although before algos traders manually performed the same fuctions that computers do now) that others have said over the past few decades. He also seems quite indoctrinated into the buy only side or buy and hold mentality ("stocks are always hammered down by the shorts."). Did it ever occur to him that he can set up a method to profit on the short side as well? Guess not.
I am 43 now so I can say that with some degree of experience. There used to be floor guys running stops..etc etc. Same stuff different day.
What he is saying is basically...profitable systems are like the holy grail, any one of them that works must be a secret, and the edges diminish quickly.
The most important aspect of failure in trading is failure to follow a system. It isn't finding the "best" system, because there isn't one "best" system. Each trader has his own tolerance for risk volatility heat etc, and different methods or rather different traders fit different methods.
If I were a beginning trader, day trader, whatever I would do this. First, find or create a system. Second, match the risk management to the level of your risk capital. Third, make every effort to follow the system exactly win lose or draw. If you do those three things, either you will succeed financially or you will lose, but in losing you should be able to have the confidence that you followed your method, and that should lead to a modification of the method if it didn't work well enough or some other key that will support you in becoming a good trader. The key ability though is not the best method, but the work you will inevitably need to do in order to follow a method. Sound easy? if it does that's why you are failing. This is where most of the work in trading is, and where the rewards follow from. If you survive these trails you will eventually find and hone the system you can follow, and have the necessary psychological skills to trade your plan effectively.
Too many traders make the deadly mistake of thinking trading is about finding or creating the best system. It isn't about that, it is about having a reasonable system and executing it like a master.