Day trading for a living - Almost impossible
- Thread starter Drawdown Addict
- Start date
400% in a day. There you go day traders, that is your dopamine right there.
As an individual you can't "make a living" from the financial markets as a longer term investor.
Doesn't math out.
Let's be generous and say you somehow have $100,000 in capital as a U.S. investor, and let's be even more generous that as a longer term investor you are somehow able to 2x the 10% annual return on the S&P, so that's 20%.
That's $20,000 in annual income.
You ain't living off $20,000 a year, unless you also work a side job at McDonald's to supplement your investor income.
As an individual you can't "make a living" from the financial markets as a longer term investor.
Doesn't math out.
Let's be generous and say you somehow have $100,000 in capital as a U.S. investor, and let's be even more generous that as a longer term investor you are somehow able to 2x the 10% annual return on the S&P, so that's 20%.
That's $20,000 in annual income.
You ain't living off $20,000 a year, unless you also work a side job at McDonald's to supplement your investor income.
Yeah, I just love trading forums and communities, everybody knows the answer but no one bothers to ask the right questions.
I started up a management consulting business post-GFC and built up the treasury over 10+ years. Now I run its 7-figure (soon to be 8-figure) portfolio, I retired from corporate life 3 years ago. I've been "making a living" from the financial markets for nearly 3 years and honestly am too old to give a crap whether anyone believes it or not.
As an individual you can't "make a living" from the financial markets as a longer term investor.
Doesn't math out.
Let's be generous and say you somehow have $100,000 in capital as a U.S. investor, and let's be even more generous that as a longer term investor you are somehow able to 2x the 10% annual return on the S&P, so that's 20%.
That's $20,000 in annual income.
You ain't living off $20,000 a year, unless you also work a side job at McDonald's to supplement your investor income.
What if I told you that my expenses are around 500 euros a month?
I recall two periods of extended day trading.
For the first, perhaps combined with some multi day trades, I remember having overall great success and stress. My hands would sweat so much I kept a hand towel to wring. My back hurt, going to take a leak was a major life event as I did not want to leave the computer. I would classify my strategy as hope and ignorance coupled with buy the open, sell the pop, or maybe buy after 1-1.5 hours in some leading MOMO stock. Often early am success would lead to middle of the day doldrums depression followed by more hopium at the close. One day a friend was over and I remember being up 50K. Satellite service F'd me over a couple times with signal quality or data cap sslllooowww DOWNS. I followed everyone and everything online, did a blog, and had great emotional thrills, all the way down the crapper as the market flushed. Went nearly broke gave all the gains back to the other side, my wallet was Canslimmed.
Daytrade 1.5: I must have been doing it wrong? So I moved to futures, me thinks it was eminis. This had me barely treading water with smaller account size. Wow was I mentally sharp waking up overnight to follow and hopefully catch all the wild overnight action, I'm sure I was fun to live with.
I ended up with what I would describe as market related depression, self doubt, feelings of failure, drank a lot. Things that helped in my life were knowledge of prior success, spouse, day job, 401K, Roth IRA, future earning power. I think I took many years away from active market participation.
Daytrade 2.0, the second period. Goals and strategy were refined, changed, developed by introspection, leaning into depression, letting it instruct and teach. Adapted to where success and perhaps temperament were aligned. I became an investor! At one point I had one core stock, well researched and understood, day traded ( I think even publicly here) around the position, often earning many thousands each day, not everyday. Added the profits to core position. This lasted for maybe a year or more.
I think my period 1 success is experienced by many, followed by similar failures. Easy money without discipline or risk management.
I think period two success might be more possible but do not see mention of it here.
For the first, perhaps combined with some multi day trades, I remember having overall great success and stress. My hands would sweat so much I kept a hand towel to wring. My back hurt, going to take a leak was a major life event as I did not want to leave the computer. I would classify my strategy as hope and ignorance coupled with buy the open, sell the pop, or maybe buy after 1-1.5 hours in some leading MOMO stock. Often early am success would lead to middle of the day doldrums depression followed by more hopium at the close. One day a friend was over and I remember being up 50K. Satellite service F'd me over a couple times with signal quality or data cap sslllooowww DOWNS. I followed everyone and everything online, did a blog, and had great emotional thrills, all the way down the crapper as the market flushed. Went nearly broke gave all the gains back to the other side, my wallet was Canslimmed.
Daytrade 1.5: I must have been doing it wrong? So I moved to futures, me thinks it was eminis. This had me barely treading water with smaller account size. Wow was I mentally sharp waking up overnight to follow and hopefully catch all the wild overnight action, I'm sure I was fun to live with.
I ended up with what I would describe as market related depression, self doubt, feelings of failure, drank a lot. Things that helped in my life were knowledge of prior success, spouse, day job, 401K, Roth IRA, future earning power. I think I took many years away from active market participation.
Daytrade 2.0, the second period. Goals and strategy were refined, changed, developed by introspection, leaning into depression, letting it instruct and teach. Adapted to where success and perhaps temperament were aligned. I became an investor! At one point I had one core stock, well researched and understood, day traded ( I think even publicly here) around the position, often earning many thousands each day, not everyday. Added the profits to core position. This lasted for maybe a year or more.
I think my period 1 success is experienced by many, followed by similar failures. Easy money without discipline or risk management.
I think period two success might be more possible but do not see mention of it here.
If I pull up the theoretical P&L on any futures product then I ought to be day trading but I don't don't feel comfortable or enjoy doing it. I don't even feel comfortable daytrading on a simulator. Lol.
I really just like creating new trading strategies and trading option spreads.
Important to know thyself.
Those are words to live by, mate!
I personally don't have the discipline to mentally reset and show up day after day. To me it felt like a lot of hard work and time commitment, I left the corporate life for the financial markets exactly because I wanted to get away from these 2 things.
Respect to those that have made it work for them, just isn't the lifestyle for me.
Day trading, swing trading and even long term investors* have high failure rates.
Never understand the animosity directed solely at us day traders. Jealousy hmm?
Don't worry, be happy, which ever way you play the game.
* in the case of long termers, failure to beat the major indexes over long periods.
Never understand the animosity directed solely at us day traders. Jealousy hmm?
Don't worry, be happy, which ever way you play the game.
* in the case of long termers, failure to beat the major indexes over long periods.