Day trading difficulties
- Thread starter oilfxpro
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Quote from oilfxpro:
The real trends in forex are on the daily time frames , these are traded by the big currency traders.and driven by interest rates and fundamentals.
Take a look at the image and you can see these mile long trends.This is where the serious money is made ,
You get trends on lower time frames , but a lot of them are random walks , intra day noise driven by short term news flow.You get trends after news announcements , most of them are random illusions.
Do you believe real traders are mentoring others on 4 tick stops ,trading hundreds of times a day and giving away their money in spreads to brokers?
The real currency traders only trade 4 to 5 times a year.
This is all up to what you include in your definition of "real". For me trading with 6 tick stops is absolutely real, money I make by trading this way are also real and the pizza my wife cooks from the food bought on that money also tastes very real.
I see what you mean and agree that big, fundamentally based trends occur not that often and last long. But they are not more or less real than the smaller swings, which occur a few times a day...
BTW, I know one trader, who enters with 4-6 tick stops, but fine tunes his entries so well, that he is able to capture those huge long-term trends, you mentioned...
Guess who's ROC is bigger, his, or someone's who entered the same move with 100 ticks stop (and according position size)?
Shagi dear
Perhaps, it would be much better if you would qualify your answer somewhat in terms of....
day trading is generally a waste of time....
A better and more appreciative way to say it perhaps is....
I tried my hand on day trading for a few months or several months, perhaps.... but i was not successful at it.... and summarily it is a waste of my time....
That kind of self admission and confession would be pretty much the flux of it all....
However, to say what you did.... so strongly and so convincingly.... really sort of belittle so many of us who don't know any better but to commit ourselves to day trade for a living....
More over, what you said really also humbles us in more way than one.... Nevertheless, just because we do not show our trading tools to others, that does not mean inclusively nor exclusively that we are all dead and beaten.... or are we....?
Ohhhh, pls do forgive my rambling....The delusion with small tight stops is traders believe they are risking less , yet the probabilities suggest smaller stops is a losers game.
The enclosed tests over 10 years using a simple trending system was back tested using 8 pip and 20 pip stops using a spread of 2 pips.Using the same strategy , an 8 pip stop was applied on one set of tests , and 20 pips stops were applied on another.The results over 2300 trades show the 8 pip stops made a loss of 4078 pips , whereas the 20 pip stop showed a loss of 1247.This testing suggests small stops are an illusion for losers.In both cases the results were negative due to the cost of spread.
Move to breakeven was applied after 20 pips, trailing stop of 20 applied after 20 .
The results can vary on each individual's trading style.The vast majority of individuals will perform similar to the above testing.
I have yet to be convinced of small stops in trending and volatility breakout markets.
Nonetheless there will be arguments against the above results, on basis of individual set ups , some set ups are more certain than other set ups , some traders are better than others etc
The enclosed tests over 10 years using a simple trending system was back tested using 8 pip and 20 pip stops using a spread of 2 pips.Using the same strategy , an 8 pip stop was applied on one set of tests , and 20 pips stops were applied on another.The results over 2300 trades show the 8 pip stops made a loss of 4078 pips , whereas the 20 pip stop showed a loss of 1247.This testing suggests small stops are an illusion for losers.In both cases the results were negative due to the cost of spread.
Move to breakeven was applied after 20 pips, trailing stop of 20 applied after 20 .
The results can vary on each individual's trading style.The vast majority of individuals will perform similar to the above testing.
I have yet to be convinced of small stops in trending and volatility breakout markets.
Nonetheless there will be arguments against the above results, on basis of individual set ups , some set ups are more certain than other set ups , some traders are better than others etc
Quote from oilfxpro:
The real trends in forex are on the daily time frames , these are traded by the big currency traders.and driven by interest rates and fundamentals.
Take a look at the image and you can see these mile long trends.This is where the serious money is made ,
You get trends on lower time frames , but a lot of them are random walks , intra day noise driven by short term news flow.You get trends after news announcements , most of them are random illusions.
Do you believe real traders are mentoring others on 4 tick stops ,trading hundreds of times a day and giving away their money in spreads to brokers?
The real currency traders only trade 4 to 5 times a year.
Are you serious that.... The real currency traders that you knew only trade 4 to 5 times a year....?
Several that I knew some years back who worked in the back room called out more trades than that in any one single day.... LOL
But then you could be right too that the current trend could be what you said just trade 4 or 5 times a year.
There is always something new to learn every day.
Quote from nakachalet:
Are you serious that.... The real currency traders that you knew only trade 4 to 5 times a year....?
Several that I knew some years back who worked in the back room called out more trades than that in any one single day.... LOL
But then you could be right too that the current trend could be what you said just trade 4 or 5 times a year.
There is always something new to learn every day.
If I was a broker , I would sponsor my stooges to promote day trading strategies,to get you to trade 100 times a day and pay me a spread 100 times a day.That is 25,000 times a year.Why would I want you to trade 4 to 5 times a year?The whole forex brainwashing is done by brokers.Some of the stooges on forums could be promoting 5 pip and 10 pip stops , so you lose your money faster to the brokers.Ged it.
http://www.crbtrader.com/trader/v08n02/mindoftrader.asp
Bill Lipschutz summed it up when he said, "Out of 250 trades in a year, it comes down to five, three of those will be wrong and you will lose a fortune and two will be right and you will make a fortune; for the other 245 trades-you should have been sitting on your hands
You saying that forex brokers hire people (you refer to them as stooges) to go and join discussion forums to promote 5 pip to 10 pip stop protection as a way to encourage overtrading ???
If that's what you're saying, can you post a direct link to any single message at any forum were you "suspected" such was occurring regardless if you have proof or not that the stooge is working for a specific forex broker ???
Lets take this further, can you post a link to a forex broker that has advertisements or promotions that encourage their clients to use 5 pip to 10 pip stop protection ???
I've asked because I've just quickly reviewed the websites of 5 popular forex brokers and I don't see such types of promotions nor have I seen any message by a "stooge" that's working for a broker hanging around at discussion forums promoting "5 pip to 10 pip stop protection".
My point is that if you don't have proof of such...why imply such via saying "if I was a broker..."
Mark
Mark
First of all I didn't know the other definition of the word stooge , other than being a promoter of x firm.My apologies for using it in error.
I am not going down the road of naming and linking.These can be considered my opinion.
What I meant is there is a lot of over trading which benefits only the broker, if some body is over trading their broker will be chuffed.
Quote from wrbtrader:
You saying that forex brokers hire people (you refer to them as stooges) to go and join discussion forums to promote 5 pip to 10 pip stop protection as a way to encourage overtrading ???
If that's what you're saying, can you post a direct link to any single message at any forum were you "suspected" such was occurring regardless if you have proof or not that the stooge is working for a specific forex broker ???
Lets take this further, can you post a link to a forex broker that has advertisements or promotions that encourage their clients to use 5 pip to 10 pip stop protection ???
I've asked because I've just quickly reviewed the websites of 5 popular forex brokers and I don't see such types of promotions nor have I seen any message by a "stooge" that's working for a broker hanging around at discussion forums promoting "5 pip to 10 pip stop protection".
My point is that if you don't have proof of such...why imply such via saying "if I was a broker..."
Mark
Mark, not worth your time nor effort.
Many are just repeaters of hearsay which are abound and abundant nowadays. Wow, you guys still entertaining olifxpro with his tens of threads to discuss why daytrading forex don't work. His definition of daytrading is very narrow, meaning those we scalp for 10pips or less, with tight 10pips stop trading hundreds of times a day.
He considered intraday trading with 20-40pips stop loss, 3-4 times a day as "swing trade". So until you understand his definition, you are wasting time with his latest thread to justify his own inability to grasp daytrading. I believe he is also known as emg, the guy who kept telling everyone 95% of traders fail. Same person.
He considered intraday trading with 20-40pips stop loss, 3-4 times a day as "swing trade". So until you understand his definition, you are wasting time with his latest thread to justify his own inability to grasp daytrading. I believe he is also known as emg, the guy who kept telling everyone 95% of traders fail. Same person.