Day trading difficulties

[oilfxpro]

The enclosed statement proves it is easy to make money trading randomly , using 80 pip stops and 7.33 pips gross profit , or 2 pips net profit per trade during the Frankfurt/uk and U S sessions.

The choppy sessions are difficult , but not too difficult to make money in.You do not need trends to make money intra day.

Proof 80 trades , 150 pips in a 100 pip day.

 

[nakachalet]

Quote from oilfxpro:

The enclosed statement proves it is easy to make money trading randomly , using 80 pip stops and 7.33 pips gross profit , or 2 pips net profit per trade during the Frankfurt/uk and U S sessions.

The choppy sessions are difficult , but not too difficult to make money in.You do not need trends to make money intra day.

Proof 80 trades , 150 pips in a 100 pip day.

just curious,

what do you have to pay in your own currency to whoever your broker is, per round turn pls?

it seems enormously excessive to place trades as your post, no?

won't it be possible to synthesize whatever you call them trendlines, down to just a few manageable size, so as to reduce your own confusion in your own mind, as minute drags on to hour culminating at the end of the trading day in 6 hours, no?

 

[nakachalet]

Quote from oilfxpro:

The enclosed statement proves it is easy to make money trading randomly , using 80 pip stops and 7.33 pips gross profit , or 2 pips net profit per trade during the Frankfurt/uk and U S sessions.

The choppy sessions are difficult , but not too difficult to make money in.You do not need trends to make money intra day.

Proof 80 trades , 150 pips in a 100 pip day.

OILFXPRO:

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH YOU AND YOUR ATTACHMENT?

my service protection unit identified your attachment as trying to sneak through the back door SECRETLY to seek unauthorized info?

why is this necessary to spy on other traders?

if i do not get a satisfactory answer within 24 hours from you, inasmuch as i like your posts, i'll have no choice but to quarantine you and your service provider, that is fair enough, right?

Pls notice top of the attachment of your file, downloaded to my computer and being captured to show the failed attempt to spy.

 

[oilfxpro]

Quote from nakachalet:

just curious,

what do you have to pay in your own currency to whoever your broker is, per round turn pls?

it seems enormously excessive to place trades as your post, no?

won't it be possible to synthesize whatever you call them trendlines, down to just a few manageable size, so as to reduce your own confusion in your own mind, as minute drags on to hour culminating at the end of the trading day in 6 hours, no?

1.7 pips is included in above prices , Barclays charges 1.3 pips.I can get lower spreads with futures brokers.

Time factor is more important in placing trades for others to follow.By the time I post details , sometimes I will have exited within seconds of placing trades.Anyone can see my trades in real time , if I allow any one to see them.

These are random trades not trend line trades , see far right on image.

 

[oilfxpro]

Quote from nakachalet:

OILFXPRO:

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH YOU AND YOUR ATTACHMENT?

my service protection unit identified your attachment as trying to sneak through the back door SECRETLY to seek unauthorized info?

why is this necessary to spy on other traders?

if i do not get a satisfactory answer within 24 hours from you, inasmuch as i like your posts, i'll have no choice but to quarantine you and your service provider, that is fair enough, right?

Pls notice top of the attachment of your file, downloaded to my computer and being captured to show the failed attempt to spy.

This is nothing to do with me , just your cyber enemies hackers, virus merchants ,spyware etc.

 

[frank01st]

Quote from oilfxpro:
The enclosed statement proves it is easy to make money trading randomly , using 80 pip stops and 7.33 pips gross profit , or 2 pips net profit per trade during the Frankfurt/uk and U S sessions.
The choppy sessions are difficult , but not too difficult to make money in.You do not need trends to make money intra day.
Proof 80 trades , 150 pips in a 100 pip day.

Have you seen ddav's thread? He has a similar system to yours where he can randomly trade and net profits, see first post:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=214316

 

[oilfxpro]

Quote from frank01st:

Have you seen ddav's thread? He has a similar system to yours where he can randomly trade and net profits, see first post:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=214316

I saw the thread , he does not give any clues on what drives his entries.I was no wiser at the end of the thread.

 

[oilfxpro]

Quote from Shagi:

Assuming you are trend trading the problem I found in making consistent positive returns when day trading is that intra-day trends are generally all random act, you never know which way its gonna go. So to cover losses incurred when trying to find the intra-day trend every trade must be taken in any random direction, no questions asked - be it short or long. Unless you have the ability to do it it's wasting time day trading because the trade you don't take always ends up the big winner of the day.

That scenario can easily be repeated for years day in day out until you tap-out. You can attend all psychology seminars/read books you want the results will not change if you inner-self says that any intra day trend is random. This is not the same with random wins/losses that every trade starts at be it day/short/long. It's about direction - short term trading direction is random whereas long term is not. So to make money on intra-day trends you have believe that every trade in any direction will lead to a big win. I found that I could not that even after years trying it. Thats where I failed day-trading I know the problem but I can't bring myself to take every trade in a random direction especially after several consecutive losses.

Now on the other hand in swing/long term trading unless you have a very poor strategy its easy to decipher market direction on a highly consistent basis. When I lose there I know exactly why and its rarely because of making bets for a random market direction outcome, its other issues that I can deal with or accept as an inherent flaw of being human or my strategy that I choose not to or can't change. I don't get too philosophical when I lose. The job is a bit easier here, simply because I know precisely what I'm doing relative to more predictable market direction outcome - in one way only (Long or Short but never indecision about which way.

I'm not suggesting that it's a surefire-thing way to make money but for me at least its a hell lot easier provided of-course all other skills are in place.

Contrary to common belief if you really know what you are doing you don't even need a big account to swing it ($5k is plenty assuming you have another day job to pay bills). But in day trading even if you know what you are doing you need a big account to give you the ability to take every trade for any highly random trend outcome that may end up as a big winner to pay for many losses associated with random direction outcomes and still be able make a living, if day trading you can't hold another job (not less than $20k to trade at least 1CL/Russell/6E and similar markets). Yes and forget making a living day-trading 1ES/YM/NQ it just can't be done.

I know many will argue otherwise and they could be right also but that just my experience.

Great post

See image below confirms what you are saying, some days are even worse.On this chart you probably get 4 losses of 12 pips and 3 profits of 20 pips , using trend trading.

Here is the possible solution.

Trade with the intraday trends using a very tight stop of 12 pips and a target of 20 pips , move to b/e after 12 pips

Alternatively use a contrarian /random method.

 

[frank01st]

Quote from oilfxpro:
Great post
See image below confirms what you are saying, some days are even worse.On this chart you probably get 4 losses of 12 pips and 3 profits of 20 pips , using trend trading.
Here is the possible solution.
Trade with the intraday trends using a very tight stop of 12 pips and a target of 20 pips , move to b/e after 12 pips
Alternatively use a contrarian /random method.

I would argue that it isn't "trend trading" at all, but some kind of moving average following. But I'll let other experts opine on this.

 

[wrbtrader]

Quote from frank01st:

I would argue that it isn't "trend trading" at all, but some kind of moving average following. But I'll let other experts opine on this.

You're absolutely correct. On that particular trading day Weds May 25th the EurUsd was not a trend day and the available market context failed to help setup a trend day.

In contrast, it was a low volatility range day in which ALL volatility spikes had been retraced. Trend days do not retrace most of the volatility spikes in the same trading day in which they're produce.

In addition, the very obvious, the price action of May 25th was stuck within the range of the Tues May 24th price action. To be specific, the volatility spikes of May 25th were stuck within the range of the volatility spikes of May 24th resulting in the low volatility range day.

Yet, that doesn't imply the price action of Weds May 25th wasn't useful. Take a look at "late" Thurs May 26th and Fri May 27th. The price action of Weds May 25th gave support for the price action of those two trading days that follow...that's what low volatility range days are suppose to do...they setup trend days.

Simply, all the trading days continuing afterwards until current...looking at them as a whole have been in a trend like price action that got started from an uneventful low volatility range trading day of Weds May 25th.

Think outside the box.

Mark