Day trading as a living should be impossible

wrbtrader · Nov 11, 2010

Quote from abdul_mcgee:

Do any of you have a family with kids or all you all single?

Family with kids for me. Yeah, I use coupons when going shopping and try to wait for the sales.

Yet, one thing about being an at home retail trader, there's less expenses in comparison to commuting to an office.

Mark

outsource · Nov 11, 2010

Quote from spd:

Most people fail as traders because most people suck and fail at everything.

Where do you find yourself in life in general?

If you have a good attitude where you dont accept failure and always find a way to make things work...

Exactly right. You should first identify yourself in a cosmogonical sense of life, as a whole.

abdul_mcgee · Nov 11, 2010

Quote from Bob111:

i do have both,but i'm not spending 8-10K a month..even if i CAN..try to make some first..specially daytrading..probably after that you will threat them differently..

Please repeat what you just wrote in full sentences. I have a problem with fragments. I'm not being sarcastic, I think I'm missing a part of my brain.

abdul_mcgee · Nov 11, 2010

Quote from Bob111:

i do have both,but i'm not spending 8-10K a month..even if i CAN..try to make some first..specially daytrading..probably after that you will threat them differently..

So what are your monthly expenses? Including accounting fees, taxes and everything else?

You'd be surprised what you find out once you go past amateur budgeting.

outsource · Nov 11, 2010

Quote from wrbtrader:

...but only trade it because it has better price action than their preferred trading instrument.

Mark

But only trade it because it has ACTION ACTION ACTION..and who needs to sit and wait for the real signals.

Aint that the truth?

Bob111 · Nov 11, 2010

Quote from abdul_mcgee:

So what are your monthly expenses? Including accounting fees, taxes and everything else?

You'd be surprised what you find out once you go past amateur budgeting.

what accounting fees are you talking about? for last decade or so i do my taxes(and all relatives) by myself..our corp accountant double check them for free before IRS..that's once a year + 4 quarterly estimated payments(which is really easy to calculate)...$35 for tax cut soft.. all other expenses-1.5-3K max..few utility bills=300-400,about 300-350 for property tax..food about 500,gas 300..kid classes are about 400..that's about it...practically no cloth expenses,since i'm trading from home wearing only undies..

i'm not sure,what i suppose to find...or look for..are going to teach me about budgeting? you can't be serious..

abdul_mcgee · Nov 11, 2010

Quote from Bob111:

what accounting fees are you talking about? for last decade or so i do my taxes(and all relatives) by myself..our corp accountant double check them for free before IRS..that's once a year + 4 quarterly estimated payments(which is really easy to calculate)...$35 for tax cut soft.. all other expenses-1.5-3K max..few utility bills=300-400,about 300-350 for property tax..food about 500,gas 300..kid classes are about 400..that's about it...practically no cloth expenses,since i'm trading from home wearing only undies..
i'm not sure,what i suppose to find...or look for..are going to teach me about budgeting? you can't be serious..

I agree, our costs are high. We used to live on $900/month :-)

But really, we live a very good life. I've managed to save 50-75% of my income annually.

abdul_mcgee · Nov 11, 2010

Quote from abdul_mcgee:

I agree, our costs are high. We used to live on $900/month

But really, we live a very good life. I've managed to save 50-75% of my income annually.

PS: Since we are talking about it, I pay $200/month in accountant fees for them to do all the work and be my therapists.

Also, if it wasn't clear, I have two businesses.

spindr0 · Nov 11, 2010

Quote from abdul_mcgee:

In the last two years, the TNA ETF (a 3X bull) has had a median of 6% difference between high and lows throughout the day. I believe you can surely find a few 3X ETFs that you can trade throughout the day for well more than half a point on 1000 shares.

Am I insane? Anyway, I'll be paper trading for a month or so before I put real money on the line.

How do you know you're going to be on the right side of an intraday move of up to 6%? Just because it's there doesn't mean it's easy to nab.

Are you insane? No. But if you think that you can paper trade for a few months and then regularly generate a monthly return of 8-10% with real money then you may be in for a rude awakening and possibly a blown out account.

spindr0 · Nov 12, 2010

Quote from abdul_mcgee:

Say there is a 6% median in a bull 3x and further, say you are right 40% of the time. I hope that is not out of the ballpark for good traders.

Now if we use the rule of 60, that is, I don't pick tops or bottoms but make money in the 60% in between, that is a full 3.6% position swing possible on a median day (average is similar). Do you mean to tell me that if you could even get 1% of that, it is not possible?

The problem with this is that the intraday moves aren't linear. The are multiple reversals and you only know the results in hindsight. You may be up 1/2 a pct then down 2 pct before being up 1 pct and that may occur multiple times. Tick by tick data is very different than 6% intraday ranges.

Margin is a double edged sword. In 3X ETF's, what goes up 3X as fast also goes down 3X as fast.