Dateline NBC

[jprad]

Quote from eternitysgarden:

it reduce's my freedom because if i wanted 100:1 levarge i should have the choice to get it, stupid. Goverment should not be telling me what kind of leverage I should be able to get, if i fail then oh well, file chapter 7 and start over.

This kind of thinking goes to the very heart of the problem -- equivalent capital gains rates for different levels of leverage.

IMHO, there should be zero cap gains tax if you're playing with only your money and not using leverage.

But, the idea that you should be able to keep the same percentage of your gains as someone who didn't use leverage while hanging taxpayers with all your losses when a leveraged bet takes you out of the game is broken.

If you want 100:1 leverage, fine, so long as you're paying 90% of those gains in taxes.

 

[Trader666]

I was hoping for an intelligent response... but speaking of dildos, how are you this morning elcubano?

If you look back at what I wrote that you quoted, the key word was "more" as in, who is more responsible. Using your analogy, only an idiot like you (or a criminal) would argue that someone who leaves their door open is more to blame than a burglar. But it doesn't surprise me that you'd make that argument. Why would you defend burglars?

Quote from ElCubano:

the same way you are to blame if you leave your home DOOR WIDE open on purpose and then get robbed....

 

[Trader666]

Not so simple...

How does that make the ones who didn't break their end of legal contracts more responsible?

These weren't unsecured loans and the OPM came from willing sources.

Quote from RichardRimes:

simple....

Lenders had a higher obligation because they were lending with OPM....not their own money!

 

[bigarrow]

Quote from gnome:

The VERY first were the DemoCraps in 1999 with their Affirmative Action Lending... irresponsible social engineering in an attempt to buy votes.

What bill and what section of the the bill are you referring to does it states what your claiming?

 

[Rearden Metal]

Quote from Trader666:

Why do you think lenders are more to blame than borrowers?

Because I think there are a great number of people out there with fucked-up 'delayed gratification pleasure circuits'.

Just look at the obesity rate in this country: On an intellectual level they may fully realize that looking thin and feeling healthy has far greater value than the fleeting temporary pleasure to be gained by guzzling a double cheeseburger and washing it down with a jumbo milkshake... yet they just can't seem to help themselves, regardless of the consequences.

Combine that with the common flaw in human nature that causes most people to blindly follow the instructions/advice of any perceived authority figure ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment ), and it just seems to me that most of the blame falls on the lenders in this case.

 

[ElCubano]

Quote from Rearden Metal:

Combine that with the common flaw in human nature that causes most people to blindly follow the instructions/advice of any perceived authority figure ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment ), and it just seems to me that most of the blame falls on the lenders in this case.

I just saw in either 20/20 or dateline the other night and they had a person pretending to be an officer ( with the phoniest badge you can imagine ),,, having people do all kinds of stuff by saying he was undercover while standing outside a grocery store kind of place and telling them to help him do stuff, like putting a pill in somones cup, taking a stroller with a fake infant insde ( the person had no idea though) and taking a purse from another stroller...crazy shit..they actually would do what this guy said to do....

 

[Trader666]

I agree with everything you wrote here except your conclusion.

So is Mcdonald's to blame for "making" people fat because they can't control themselves?

Ted Bundy couldn't control his urges either... does that mean he wasn't to blame for his murders? Or that he was, but authorities were more to blame for not catching him sooner? Were Bundy's victims more to blame for not taking better precautions, making him a "victim" of their "negligence?"

Quote from Rearden Metal:

Because I think there are a great number of people out there with fucked-up 'delayed gratification pleasure circuits'.

Just look at the obesity rate in this country: On an intellectual level they may fully realize that looking thin and feeling healthy has far greater value than the fleeting temporary pleasure to be gained by guzzling a double cheeseburger and washing it down with a jumbo milkshake... yet they just can't seem to help themselves, regardless of the consequences.

Combine that with the common flaw in human nature that causes most people to blindly follow the instructions/advice of any perceived authority figure ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment ), and it just seems to me that most of the blame falls on the lenders in this case.

 

[pspr]

You don't need to watch Dateline to know how we got in the mortgage mess. Just say Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter. Obama isn't blameless either.

 

[Kevmeister]

Quote from Rearden Metal:

guzzling a double cheeseburger and washing it down with a jumbo milkshake

Damn, now I've got to make a run to McDonalds. Why, oh why, did you have to say this tonight. I wasn't going eat anything else. But noooooooooooo, you have to put this thought in my head. Damn it, it's your fault that I want this damn cheeseburger.

AHHHHHHHHHHHH, that double quarterpounder with cheese and a super size fry was good. Their milkshakes aren't half bad. Of course I put some goobers on top.

It really is your fault though. I would have never pursued this had you put that thought in my head. Wait a minute -- If this thread wasn't started then you would have not contributed to this thread and said that hamburger thing. So it is not only your fault but the damn OP's fault for starting this thread.

PS

Anybody have funds you can lend me to buy a house. I tried to get a 100% loan but they don't have those anymore. They want 10% down and guess what --- they WANT ME TO HAVE VERIFIABLE income. GEEEEZZZ, what the hell is up with that?

Kev

 

[Rearden Metal]

Quote from Trader666:

I agree with everything you wrote here except your conclusion.

So is Mcdonald's to blame for "making" people fat because they can't control themselves?

Ted Bundy couldn't control his urges either... does that mean he wasn't to blame for his murders? Or that he was, but authorities were more to blame for not catching him sooner? Were Bundy's victims more to blame for not taking better precautions, making him a "victim" of their "negligence?"

I didn't mean to sound like one of those 'blame society' whiney liberal types, and as my name implies I do value personal responsibility higher than most.

McDonald's should bear no <i>legal</i> responsibility for expanding America's collective waist size (it's none of the government/court system's business), even though their obesity peddling might not be entirely <i>ethical</i>. I'm not one to quote scripture, but "You shall not place a stumbling block before a blind man" (Lev 19:14) does come to mind.

I'm not excusing murder here, and the deadbeat borrowers are not entirely blameless either. I just think that professional lenders should have been expected to know better than some ignorant slob off the street who feels like borrowing some money.