Dark Pools final round

[Ivano]

Dear All,

(from the future index forum got recommended to write in the stocks forum, but i see that stocks forum is related to single stocks ex OXY,AAPL etc)

I want to know what big institutions are buying. Is said that volume is a good way to indicate institutions activity, and so is the ratio put call ratio, but the reality is that 40 per cent of the US transactions on stocks are made via Dark Pools. Because of them action price volume as were conceived from the beginning of the century are less relevant because price may not change and so not the volume if two big "sharks" use these alternative trader systems

My questions is
How can i monitor for a specific stock if there have been
"prints" of transactions. I found a 200 per month commercial service but looks too expensive for my capabilities?

Thanks

 

[Robert Morse]

Do you want to consume ATS prints through an API or view them on your platform? On Realtick, you can do both. On Lightspeed Trader and Sterling, you can only view them. This is Lightspeed Trader. ADFN are the Dark pool prints. I filtered out all but ADFN.

 

[Sprout]

Dear All,

(from the future index forum got recommended to write in the stocks forum, but i see that stocks forum is related to single stocks ex OXY,AAPL etc)

I want to know what big institutions are buying. Is said that volume is a good way to indicate institutions activity, and so is the ratio put call ratio, but the reality is that 40 per cent of the US transactions on stocks are made via Dark Pools. Because of them action price volume as were conceived from the beginning of the century are less relevant because price may not change and so not the volume if two big "sharks" use these alternative trader systems

My questions is
How can i monitor for a specific stock if there have been
"prints" of transactions. I found a 200 per month commercial service but looks too expensive for my capabilities?

Thanks

When I was trading stocks finviz had the institutional ownership metric that filtered for institutional sponsorship. Looks like they've expanded it to include institutional transactions. (probably not the granularity your looking for)
https://finviz.com/screener.ashx?v=131&o=-insttrans

His tracking of politician trades are insightful, haven't looked into other metrics he compiles;
https://unusualwhales.com/flow/dark

Doing a twitter search brings up more options.

Good luck in your search!

 

[Ivano]

@Robert Morse thank you, I did not think about the possibility to use one of the services you mention. At the moment viewing them is fine, I use indeed also API to backtest and do stock selection usually alpaca, so could be also interested. @Sprout indeed finviz is great for several helicopter view operations but when i go from the forest to the insects i usually go for other tools. `Unusual whales` with 42$ per month gives live ATS activity, may see if there is a trial while comparing all the options, because as far as I read ATS transactions are delayed 24 hours, but I may be wrong. As you said I am definitely continuing my research, and also the correlations to device my strategy and understand things as for instance on average an hedge fund how much can exchange in this way, when find difficult to meet a counterpart, if is more about shorting, or going long, what are the motivations of the counterpart? Possibly hedging, or relying on some kind of information that justifies a contrarian behavior and so on. I am afraid that these things are known only by an operator in this field, hope a book will come soon

The only thing that I still need to understand if all this time consuming research is going to pay off or I am overvaluing this kind of institutional trades.
Thanks

 

[horizon]

@Robert Morse thank you, I did not think about the possibility to use one of the services you mention. At the moment viewing them is fine, I use indeed also API to backtest and do stock selection usually alpaca, so could be also interested. @Sprout indeed finviz is great for several helicopter view operations but when i go from the forest to the insects i usually go for other tools. `Unusual whales` with 42$ per month gives live ATS activity, may see if there is a trial while comparing all the options, because as far as I read ATS transactions are delayed 24 hours, but I may be wrong. As you said I am definitely continuing my research, and also the correlations to device my strategy and understand things as for instance on average an hedge fund how much can exchange in this way, when find difficult to meet a counterpart, if is more about shorting, or going long, what are the motivations of the counterpart? Possibly hedging, or relying on some kind of information that justifies a contrarian behavior and so on. I am afraid that these things are known only by an operator in this field, hope a book will come soon

The only thing that I still need to understand if all this time consuming research is going to pay off or I am overvaluing this kind of institutional trades.
Thanks

Did you try Blackboxstocks? So far, it is the best tool for Dark Print that I know off.

 

[Ivano]

Did you try Blackboxstocks? So far, it is the best tool for Dark Print that I know off.

Good tip, cost 100 eu per month but there is not trial. On the other side I like the educational section. Maybe I could give it a try a month that i foreseen a change in the market, and that have more free time so to learn so to understand the absolute value of a print may be a buy or a sell. On the other side in these days i come up with new terms used by market makers and some powerful hedge funds, as icebergs, synthetic stocks, order blocks.

My aim is to restore my retail snipper advantage on the sharks, and to do it without getting caught in liquidity traps and fake volumes because I believe that knowing the investors side will make me consistent. If further study will show that I am going to consider the bucks for a month and see.

 

[Ivano]

Now i am coming with another important question: on which time frame dark pools are relevant? I am into daily/weekly most of my time, could be that the advantage i get from these tools may be minimal

 

[Ivano]

When I was trading stocks finviz had the institutional ownership metric that filtered for institutional sponsorship. Looks like they've expanded it to include institutional transactions. (probably not the granularity your looking for)
https://finviz.com/screener.ashx?v=131&o=-insttrans

His tracking of politician trades are insightful, haven't looked into other metrics he compiles;
https://unusualwhales.com/flow/dark

Doing a twitter search brings up more options.

Good luck in your search!

After exhaustive research,largely influenced by your recommendations, I decided i will go with unusualwhales for 1 month, looks the right way to start considering quality/pricing

My plan is
* To combine with bop, vts, moneystream and obv from tc2000 indicators
* compare with freeservices (also barchart), seeing if put and call can be polluted by specific advanced option leg strategies, as butterflies or condor
* Examining what other tricks institutional traders and pension/hedge funds have to hide volume accumulation and topping ex algos, icebergs etc
* Seeing what can still bring from the 50s reader tapes lessons that still works in certain market conditions
* Studying options from unusual waves to understand the print direction of ATS
* Go through the educational material of the unusualwhales platform
* Manually backtest if is useful to justify moves on volume and price action not noticeable from the graphs
* Interviewing someone in the sector that can ex
* Become financially independent or at least executing laser zen focused trades with conviction and risk mgmt without arguing with the market

* If works in the next 2 years write my algo and access to these API to find more data driven recommendations, not decisions

 

[horizon]

After exhaustive research,largely influenced by your recommendations, I decided i will go with unusualwhales for 1 month, looks the right way to start considering quality/pricing

My plan is
* To combine with bop, vts, moneystream and obv from tc2000 indicators
* compare with freeservices (also barchart), seeing if put and call can be polluted by specific advanced option leg strategies, as butterflies or condor
* Examining what other tricks institutional traders and pension/hedge funds have to hide volume accumulation and topping ex algos, icebergs etc
* Seeing what can still bring from the 50s reader tapes lessons that still works in certain market conditions
* Studying options from unusual waves to understand the print direction of ATS
* Go through the educational material of the unusualwhales platform
* Manually backtest if is useful to justify moves on volume and price action not noticeable from the graphs
* Interviewing someone in the sector that can ex
* Become financially independent or at least executing laser zen focused trades with conviction and risk mgmt without arguing with the market

* If works in the next 2 years write my algo and access to these API to find more data driven recommendations, not decisions

What do bop, vts, moneystream and obv stand for?
For dark prints, unusual whale only collect them from ATS so many big dark prints are missing.

 

[Ivano]

What do bop, vts, moneystream and obv stand for?

you can click these:

here a critic post from ET here

BOP

MoneyStream

TSV

OBV

For dark prints, unusual whale only collect them from ATS so many big dark prints are missing.

Whereas with the blackboxstock tool you recommended me i would see the big dark prints that are missing?
I did not find a link speaking about the quality of the specific dark pool quantitative comparison between unusual waves and blackbox, whereas the major selling proposition from blackbox was the social media function and the integrated news service with the fly that is a kind of cheaper bezinga pro

In the comparisions between the two i come across often to another tool called tradytics