Currenex, HotSpotFxi, Lava - Pimps for the Banks? - No Scalpers

walterjennings · Dec 21, 2006

I dont see how banks would be able to tell the duration of FX orders from single clients? If you take a broker like IB, they must get multiple orders every second going every which direction. If I place a buy order for 100k, then someone sells 100k 20 seconds later, how would that look different to the banks as orders coming from IB than me buying and selling 100k within 20 seconds?

I was looking forward to answers to dangers questions posted on this thread. fxsomebody would you mind making public the information you provided?

Thanks.

Pippi436 · Dec 21, 2006

Why is everybody hyping currency futures? Especially cable and especially during euro-session its rather dire on globex, sometimes just a few contracts on the best bid offer. On IB commissions for a 1 mio trade on cable work out to around 45 Usd per side. No thanks, ill take my business elsewhere.

Its clearly definitely not suited for the OP who wants to scalp with size.

walterjennings · Dec 21, 2006

Quote from pippin:

Why is everybody hyping currency futures? Especially cable and especially during euro-session its rather dire on globex, sometimes just a few contracts on the best bid offer. On IB commissions for a 1 Milo trade on cable work out to around 45 Usd per side. No thanks, ill take my business elsewhere.

Its clearly definitely not suited for the OP who wants to scalp with size.

I think the reason why people hype futures so much is because it is a 'real market' compared to fx. on globex you are trading against other traders who decide what they are willing to buy/sell at. when you trading fx there is a level of cross trades where you trade against other traders, but most of the time it falls down to banks who are trying to provide liquidity, offering trades that they really dont want to go through unless they can quickly hedge against other orders within a few seconds. Thats why banks complain if trades consistently go against them, you wont run into that kind of mentality when trading on a real market against other traders. If someone adds liquidity on globex, they have to live with it being filled. At least thats my naive take on the situation.

the more people trading forex futures on globex, the better the globex forex futures will be. the less market makers a market needs, the purer it is.

Moe27 · Dec 21, 2006

Quote from walterjennings:

I dont see how banks would be able to tell the duration of FX orders from single clients? If you take a broker like IB, they must get multiple orders every second going every which direction. If I place a buy order for 100k, then someone sells 100k 20 seconds later, how would that look different to the banks as orders coming from IB than me buying and selling 100k within 20 seconds?

I was looking forward to answers to dangers questions posted on this thread. fxsomebody would you mind making public the information you provided?

Thanks.

your right, 9 times out of 10 you will enter with one bank and close with another so there is no way one single bank is going to know this.

late apex · Dec 21, 2006

Quote from Bitstream:

trade the futs and spread your bets across pound/eur. u may not be able to trade 100 lots but u may get away with 30-50. still better than trading trough a bucketshop.

Strange, I could've sworn that the OP specifically stated, a few posts / hours ago:

Quote from danger66

Don't think futures will work. One of our traders is a successful futures scalper and he told me that we won't have the liquidity we need if we go that route.

Second, the total daily liquidity and depth of market of Euro-FX and Pound futures are both disproportionately concentrated during the first half of the US trading session, as opposed to the Asian and European ones and the US second half.

Third, none of the dealers discussed are "bucketshops". They are forex ECNs, offering STP. You've heard of those, right?

Is there any chance that you could ever stop sounding like a broken record on the subject of cash forex vs. currency futures and open your mind to some basic, real-world facts, at least a tiny bit, Bit?

Bitstream · Dec 21, 2006

he can spread his bets as i said, sure i read his post, and i give him the idea of trade 2 pairs instead than one, as i thought he didn't think about this possibility.

those brokers are all bucketshops as far as i concern since they are lightly regulated or not regulated at all and make artificial markets. there are a bunch of good reasons to trade futures and i will keep highlighting them. u sound too like a broken record defending the indefensible.

Quote from late apex:

Strange, I could've sworn that the OP specifically stated, a few posts / hours ago:

Second, the total daily liquidity and depth of market of Euro-FX and Pound futures are both disproportionately concentrated during the first half of the US trading session, as opposed to the Asian and European ones and the US second half.

Third, none of the dealers discussed are "bucketshops". They are forex ECNs, offering STP. You've heard of those, right?

Is there any chance that you could ever stop sounding like a broken record on the subject of cash forex vs. currency futures and open your mind to some basic, real-world facts, at least a tiny bit, Bit?

ElectricSavant · Dec 21, 2006

Why don't the Banks just use Futures then?

Quote from Bitstream:

he can spread his bets as i said, sure i read his post, and i give him the idea of trade 2 pairs instead than one, as i thought he didn't think about this possibility.

those brokers are all bucketshops as far as i concern since they are lightly regulated or not regulated at all and make artificial markets. there are a bunch of good reasons to trade futures and i will keep highlighting them. u sound too like a broken record defending the indefensible.

illiquid · Dec 21, 2006

Quote from late apex:

Is there any chance that you could ever stop sounding like a broken record on the subject of cash forex vs. currency futures and open your mind to some basic, real-world facts, at least a tiny bit, Bit?

You can take some of your own advice, you know?

Warning individual traders on another thread that currency futures are "totally unsuitable" for their needs due to "excessive leverage" was a pretty closed-minded statement from someone with an agenda, no?

I don't know about you, but me and Bitstream don't work for globex, nor do we gain anything for advising others to trade there. You, on the other hand, don't happen to manage a retail fx office, do you?

Sorry, don't mean to take this off topic too much.

walterjennings · Dec 21, 2006

Quote from ElectricSavant:

Why don't the Banks just use Futures then?

because for them to get their cut using futures, their prices will always be worse than globex's. in that case people will just migrate to using globex directly. I personally think there should be one global market for trading forex, hopefully in the future. Plus id like to see mini futures. 125kEUR min lot size that futures offers is a little too big to make nice odd lot orders needed to tricky hedging strats.

ElectricSavant · Dec 21, 2006

Interesting...I guess as long as you go in and out with the same ...it would not matter...Trading is Trading..

Arbing Cash against Futures sounds interesting

some people say that i am just too smart for my britches...but that is the way I see it...

Quote from walterjennings:

because for them you get their cut, their prices will always be worse than globex's. in that case people will just migrate to using globex directly. I personally think there should be one global market for trading forex, hopefully in the future. Plus id like to see mini futures. 125kEUR min lot size that futures offers is a little too big to make nice odd lot orders needed to tricky hedging strats.